[ SECRET POST #352 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #352 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 250 secrets from Secret Submission Post #051.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 ] too big, [ 1 ] hate letter.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, December 24th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Wow uh.

I'd rather have hers.

Like...a lot. That's uh...wow.

Guess that's the funny thing about art. It's a matter of taste. But uh...wow. Nice uh...scrible demon-person-thing there.

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'd rather have Dr Worm's too. Hers actually looks like a person instead of a malformed demon-thing. That's the thing about art, though: I'd rather have something that's unfinished but looks good than a completed picture that looks awful.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was saying the exact opposite, I don't like Drworms at all.

I thinks it's ugly and very unfinished looking, not in a good way. I have no doubt Drworm only did it in a few minutes, it shows greatly.

Drworms has more correct to reality anatomy (tho I highly doubt that's what the artist in the secret was going for), but IMO not very nice line quality, chunky amateurish shading (I'm assuming because it was done quickly on a tablet, but she still chose to show something of a lower quality piece to make a point, so it's fair to judge on. Plus the shading was markedly unnecessary, so she added in something bad looking that was unneeded and detracts from the picture) a bad sense of balance (both in the over all composition, and in the figure, they have no center of weight. One leg of the other needs to be farther forward), and there's something very odd going on with the size of the head. The neck is too thick, the shoulders are wrong....oh and the ears are placed wrong. or the hair/ear overlaps badly to make them look like they're in the wrong place.

Of course the pictures not all bad, but as Drworm seem to think they are the shit, or at least present themselves as god's gift to artist...yeah, no.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Yes, it took me fifteen minutes or whatever because it's not fucking finished and not meant to be. I have plenty of finished work up for judgment; this was a challenge to myself.

the shading was markedly unnecessary

wut

One leg of the other needs to be farther forward

One is, but it's a shitty 15 minute drawing and the shading is mediocre.

there's something very odd going on with the size of the head

Sry you don't like big hair.

Oh, and yeah, I know that the shoulder/neck area isn't great, as that tends to be a weak spot of mine. I was too lazy to find myself a reference; if this was a piece I cared about, I'd try harder. I put the same amount of effort into this that I assume the artist of the piece in the secret did. TADA. OH NO IT'S JUST SCRIBBLES, YOU SAY? ON A PAPER NAPKIN? MY WORD, BUT SOME CAD JUST PAID $5000 FOR IT! OH, MY MONOCLE!

And I am totally the shit, glad you noticed.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

You posted this. What was that about taking crit? I'm judging this like I'd judge a gesture drawing in a life studies class, not a finished piece. If you don't want "Shitty 15 minutes drawings" judged, don't post em if you think they're crappy? Or if you do, don't get all butt hurt when someone crits you after you put yourself up for it.

And what was that about artist not being able to handle crit well? Or does that only apply when you're GIVING and not TAKING? (Please, please please, I'd love some crit on my art, feel free to go comment the hell outta my gallery, I KNOW I have shit loads of mistakes)

The shading was not needed. You added something in that took away time and made the piece look WORSE not BETTER. It's be like taking a fine piece of fiction that you think needs some ellipses, but since you don't have time to do it well, throwing them in wherever they looked good. If you didn't have time to do it well, you should have just left it without shading.

She has simultaneously big and flat hair (As it's much bigger in some places then others, and not in a natural way) Looks odd. Not impossible, everyone has bad hair days, but odd.

If you didn't care, don't get butt hurt over crit.

And uh...I checked out your Y-galley. I much prefer this scribble. You have a lot of issues with anatomy and such in there too. In a completely not snarky way, would you like some honest crit?

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

A BOO BLAH BLOO HOW DARE I NOT COME IN WITH THE SISTINE CHAPEL A'BLAZIN IN FIFTEEN MINUTES TO SHOW THAT A SHITTY PIECE OF ANIME ART IS, WELL, SHITTY?

But hey. An extra half-hour and--



Oh, and my y-gallery? The second most recent piece was uploaded more than a year and a half ago. Most of that stuff is embarrassingly shit, and yet still not as exasperatingly bad as little miss chibi elf thing, jesus. Unlike some people, I improve. I improve despite having fucking carpal tunnel syndrome and being unable to draw for months on end. Critique is fine, but the majority of critique tells me things I already know (I can see my own mistakes, but may choose not to correct them in something I've already finished) and/or assumes that every piece needs to be finished or polished to be good. I added shading (which was fine, frankly, though admittedly rushed) because I prefer painting to contour drawing. I could have fucked off the line altogether if I felt like it and just played with the highlight/shadow, and probably would have were this something I was doing for serious. If I've learned anything about art, it's that works that are done quickly and loosely often are more interesting than works that are labored over and that look stiff and artificial. I like sketching, I like mark-making, so that's how I roll nowadays.

(The critique I would give you is to draw things that aren't anime, and not just for classes.)

AND I WAS GONNA DRAW BOYS KISSING TONIGHT SO I DON'T NEED THIS SHIT NO MORE.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

The shading still looks painfully Photoshopped. Which may just be your style, but part of why I have yet to learn much computer coloring is because I hate the stuff inbetween being a genius at it, and having it not look computer colored, and beginners level. The shades and highlights themselves aren't bad, just jarringly computer colored.

The hair looks better, but I have hair like that, and if it's being big and messy it tends to be big and messy EVERYWHERE.

Your finished piece does have more of a cloud effect, and the hand looks better.

You however do seem to have an epic chip on your shoulder. Srsly, if you don't want things commented on, don't flaunt them. YOU were the one who said to go check your ygallery. Don't be like "IT'S BETTER but oh not really lol!" Show what you're willing to back up, or don't show it. I don't need to know about your disease, I have my own issues, everyone does, for all you know she could and could not talk about it. I do find some of her stuff better then your old y-gllery. Now I've looked at her DA, I find the opposite true as well. If you wanna give crit, you need to learn how to take it, and if you're in ANY art class, you should know that. I have never been in one advanced art class that didn't have crits.

And thank you (no snark), but I have plenty, those just don't get uploaded to DA, as my DA is very much just for fandom stuff. I'm hella lazy and don't scan in shit unless it's to show someone I don't know in real life, or for fannish stuff. Plus all the stuff I'm really proud of...is too big to bother with trying to get up to DA unfortunately (with no Digital Camera, I'd have to scan it in pieces and...yeah, screw that XD) The stuff from my AP class only ended up on there cause I got it all nice and neat on a CD-ROM from Kinkos when they made my slides or something.

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

Srsly, if you don't want things commented on, don't flaunt them.

penguinfaery: Show up or shut up
drworm: *Showed up*
penguinfaery: *Flailed and whined and pointed out "errors"*
reality: those aren't errors
drworm: *wins*

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Uhm, except, he didn't?

A scribbled mess with just as many errors as what he was saying he could do better then and with a large helping of "Of course it sucked, I didn't work that much on it because of ______!" isn't "showing up" His art isn't like...a piece of shit, by far. It's just not really good enough to be going "OH HAI I AM SO MUCH BETTER THEN U!" (Neither, personally, is mine. Which is why I didn't post it going "I can do so much better then you!")

And last I saw, reality hadn't posted anything. :D

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

lolol wow you fail so hard.

Re: 32

[kyriesanctus.livejournal.com]

You've really got a bad temper, not to mention you're just.. you know, a bit of an ass. I wasn't even insulting you, and then someone else dished out--oh here it comes--the same kind of critique you gave the "shitty animu style" (your words) picture above. Oh wait, even better--it was actually a deep, VERY well-worded and clear critique.

Sounds to me you're one of those artists who is all self-important and then gets mad when someone says your style isn't their cup of tea because you love yourself too much to be anything BUT everyone's favorite. You're so afraid of someone being, maybe not techinically better, but LIKED better than you that you're jealous and condescending because it makes you feel better. Mean Girls Fucking Syndrome, dude.

It's oh-fucking-kay that someone likes something other than your loose realism doodles.

Oh and, by the way:
1) If you don't want critiques, don't post your art like, "OH LOOK AT ME I'M FABULOUS," and then throw a tantrum when someone says, "yeah, it looks rushed and I don't like it."
2) Grow some fucking manners and realize not everyone likes the same things you do.
3) Grow some fucking RESPECT for your FELLOW ARTIST, who is working hard to improve just as you are.
4) Seriously, if you already know the mistakes in a drawing, point them out so no one critiques them further, don't just get mad when they say something looks bad, because it makes YOU look like a crybaby you can't take the same things they're dealt. All you gotta say is, "I know I screwed up the [_____], so, please, don't crit on that; but you could tell me what else is wrong with the picture so I can improve?" Ask for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism if you get your feelings hurt easily, but don't be so harsh when you criticize others, lest you get the same thing back at you.

You win more with honey than vinegar, hon.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

lololololololololololol

"hon"

Re: 32

[kyriesanctus.livejournal.com]

I... rest my case.

You're like a 7 year old.

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

You are taking this all waaaay too seriously.

'The right way to react, let me show you it. :)' summarises your how wall of text.

'3) Grow some fucking RESPECT for your FELLOW ARTIST'
I don't believe the other person here is an artist, so this doesn't apply.

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

They said they did it quickly. It's obviously a rough sketch, so critiquing the line quality and speed shading? lol. They weren't showing the AMAZING QUALITY of their penning and shading skills, but rather a proper fun figure. In the finished piece by Keysha the shading in much worse than the blotchy shading of Dr Worm's in any case.
'Over all composition'? The overall composition was no better or worse than Keysha's. It was a person slapped onto plain paper. And, also, at least Dr Worm's attempt at hiding the hands doesn't look unnatural. (Personally, Keysha's person looks like she's taking a wizz.) It looks more like it's being hidden my smoke and not just 'I couldn't be bothered to draw hands lol.' The centre of balance is absent in both pieces, as it's a rather queer pose to see someone holding for more than a split second.
And you could at least point out the right body part. The head is the part that's too big in comparison to the neck, but I guess all that anime makes you think people have straws for necks. The shoulders are fine following the arm and body position. I don't see where you're getting that the shoulders are wrong.
The problem with the ear is that, as I see it, is that it's too flat. Though, people don't usually have huge ears like that, so I applaud Dr Worm for trying to make it look right. As far as position at the base goes, the ear look fine to me. Because it's elongated, it looks high, but at the base it's correct.
I don't think they're 'God's gift to artist', but at least they know how to draw a human.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

It's a rough sketch they chose to put up in a thread about critiquing, and I've seen much better from 5 minutes life drawing exercises in my art classes, which is more what I'm comparing it to the the secret art.

The shading it utterly unnecessary. It's bad, so why add it? Why take time to add in something that takes away from the art?

I wasn't critiquing the Secret post, you are quite correct they have the same issue, however, if I was going to go about "Correcting" things, I correct them. *shrug* Just me. The hand, to me, looks much more "I couldn't bother to draw it." but then again the shading doesn't have much of a smoky quality to it.

The implied line of the front of the neck would make the neck far to thick. The shoulder are not wide enough (The right one), and the line of the spine in the neck does not follow the line of the spine down the back. Drworm admitted that themselves.

Where the ear comes out of the hair looks awkward. Like I said, had they worked on the piece, that might just be something that got cleaned up and fixed just fine.

Ah, but the original person wasn't drawing a human, they were drawing a cartoon elf. So you don't actually know how their realistic style looks from that picture. (Maybe they have something in their DA that's horrendously out of proportion and realistic style, but uh...that's not it.)

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

Your comparing what they said was a piece without reference to a class with a reference right in front of them? Not a fair comparison there, don't you think?
I wouldn't call the shading they did 'unnecessary'. It gives the picture some more depth compared to if they were just to leave it with the lines.
Actually, why the bloody hell are we critiquing a quick, no ref. sketch anyway? It makes you sound blindly biased towards Keysha's just because hers is a cartoon. 'Hers is a cartoon, so it's allowed to have shitty anatomy even though hours were spent on it.' There are problems with all of Keysha's pictures (especially the faces). Those problems aren't 'her style'; they're pure, incompetent mistakes on her part.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

When someone's bragging about how awesome they are, and how many art classes they've taken, I expect them to have something comparable to a 2-5 minutes exercise. The may have the disadvantage of not having an actual person (Althought they could have easily looked up a refrence) but they also had the advantage of an extra 10+ minutes, and a markedly more forgiving medium in the mistake area. I wish I could hit "Undo" with my charcoals.

And although not on the computer, I could have made something much better in 15 minutes, and may have has it inked. I draw a bit faster then normal, but guys? 15 minutes isn't exactly a short time in the drawing world. Most of my fanart picture only take me about an hour to finish. So uh, throwing around the "It's all I could do in 15 minutes!" well...shit. That kinda sucks. And if her computer skills are as shoddy as mine, then hey....she shouldn't have posted something she was weak at as a bragging device.

If done well it might have. However, since it's not, it just looks like some kid who doesn't know well how to use photoshop.

Why are we critquing it? Because drworm was critquing the other pictures and showed this as their "I can do so much better." Except they uh...can't. Maybe, in areas slightly better, but in general the two piece are very comparable. (And by comparable, I mean if the original had only had 15 minutes taken on it, it might have looked the same) That and I love doing art crits, and haven't done any since semester ended.

I'm not judging her whole gallery, just as I'm not judging drworms whole gallery. Tho if you'd like, we could get into that, because drworm has many many MANY errors in basic anatomy, foreshortening, etc. Maybe she does have those errors, but in THAT picture, which is the only one I've ever seen, they were "Style" not anatomy errors.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

hey you post your shit then

cuz this ain't no fair. i mean, i'm trying to be the better man, but you are making it so damn hard.

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

You found my DA quite well. You obviously have one, feel free to crit over there. That way I can refrence back to it.

For refrence, Jessie-Crit plz in the main gallery is probably the most comparable, as the sketch on that took me about 10-15 minutes (Not the coloring XP) and is sorta a similar position. (And that model's neck was that thin, so I guess it's anime character and doctored photos super models....the refrence picture was chosen because of that fact.) In scarps, nothin gonna change my worlds and chill time are about the same time period (For the second, per figure, as that was about a year or so ago and I was slower)

Re: 32

[(Anonymous)]

wall of text tb;dr because art is serious stuff @ fandom secrets. From what I did read you've probably mentioned about your art classes more than he has (or that's how it seems to me) and, what, why are you wasting your time critiquing a quick sketch? isn't there, like, something better for you to critique done seriously where you can actually help someone and yourself?

but lol way too serious guys

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

ha ha, i like you, anonymous person :D

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Art is pretty serious stuff for me, yes....uhm, your point? You had some pretty TL;DR posts up there to....

And no, the mixture of "Place I hang out" and "Self-righteous asshole who really can't back his shit up" was pretty appealing. I have nothing hugely important to do right now, I type fast, it was a fun diversion to talk/debate/argue about something I enjoy....*shrug*

Pass me a link and I'll head on over, but actually, no, I DON'T know any place. I don't play that way on DA except with specific members cause of people like sanpesnogger who couldn't take con crit if it was presented sugar crusted.

Re: 32

[drworm.livejournal.com]

ur racist against scribble demons

what r her eyes not big and glittery enough or sumthin?

oops wrong fuck you icon haha

Re: 32

[penguinfaery.livejournal.com]

Actually the face was one of the things I might enjoy if it was clearer, looks very much like the style of say the illustration in the old Oz books, very Ozma fae like.

Cept the lines you left on made her look like she had huge giant catapillar eyebrows, but ah well.