fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2906 ]

[ SECRET POST #2906 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2906 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #415.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
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It's not romance novels that are the problem, it's the public's insistence that a romance novel accurately represents what women want in relationships and out of life. I think the media is so fascinated when women write porn that they make way too much out of it - like, Fifty Shades of Grey means that women want to be tied up and emotionally dominated or something.

I don't think it's absurd to say that harmful attitudes in porn can affect your attitudes more generally.

Certainly, I don't think anyone here would regard it as controversial if I made that claim about the mainstream male-oriented porn industry.

I'd definitely say that harmful attitudes in porn reflect the authors. If somebody writes porn of white women cheating on their nebbish husbands with well-hung black men, you can usually guess that the author has some fucked-up racial politics. The readers, on the other hand, may be into cheating, may be into black men, or may be into any porn that emphasizes how massive the guy's dick is. In other words, you can't necessarily assume things from what kinds of porn people are reading.

This'll probably seem pedantic, but I think the problem is more so that it can reinforce attitudes. That type of porn wouldn't be made if the attitudes didn't already exist; it wouldn't be sought out if the attitudes didn't already exist; and it wouldn't turn people on if said people didn't already, to some extent, hold those attitudes.

We're primed to view sex in a certain way. The conversation is frustrating because sometimes it seems like it focuses way too much on the porn, which is just a symptom of a larger social problem.

Just coming here to say, I love gay porn, by men, for men (but hugely consumed by women).

Gay porn has its own problems, but I still love it.

Apparently a huge amount of the people who pay for it these days are women. Women are less likely to pirate, statistically. Money talks, so this can only be a good thing for making live action porn more women-friendly.

Except lots of women DO want to be tied up and emotionally dominated. The fantasy is rooted in reality. I don't have an intelligent response for when MRAs use rape fantasies as defense of their ideology, especially since I'm one of the women who has those fantasies.

I feel a lot of anxiety about this.

Because sexual play =/= behavior outside of sexual play, and wanting to take the less dominant role in the context of fucking doesn't necessarily indicate anything about how dominant you are outside of it, and definitely not about how dominant you should properly be allowed to be.

In other words, the fact that women have rape fantasies does not necessarily have any relevance for the question of the role of women in society generally. There's a whole fundamental assumption that those arguments make that's not proven.

well, two things. Plenty of women and men are interested in BDSM, bondage and role-play. There's nothing wrong with that, because it's a fantasy. the media has a tough time distinguishing fantasy from reality.

and yes, there are some women and men who are drawn toward people who dominate them and treat them like shit. That is a problem, but I don't think that represents the majority of women.

The intelligent response is that you're an individual who's allowed to like what you like, but you don't represent what all women like and neither does any other one woman.

I don't have an intelligent response

You can't give an intelligent response to stupid people. They're going to spew some bullshit and then say it proved you wrong. Don't bother.

Funnily enough that's what I tell my self when I see you spouting your bullying shit. "Why bother calling her on it, she'll just fling some ad hominem bullshit, or twist it around to explain why she's perfectly justified in being a dick on this occasion, and nothing will change"

Yeah ok

"The fantasy is rooted in reality"

But it's not the same as reality. In a rape fantasy, you are 100% in control. In real life rape, it's the other way around. That's the important difference.

I have rape fantasies myself where I imagine raping men - either as a man, woman or something else (machine, alien, tentacle creature, etc). But it's all fantasy. There's zero chance I'll go out and really do it. In fact, I'm even less likely since I've got my kicks already just imagining it.

I understand how you might feel anxiety having rape fantasies. I probably feel less anxiety than you do because the likelihood of me acting on my fantasies (turning into a tentacle monster and raping a man) is so tiny that no one would seriously expect me to.

On the other hand, the chances of any given woman being raped is 1 in 7, I believe, so there's a chance that you could be raped in real life (or already have). Although the fantasy of rape and the sordidness of real life rape is completely different, they go by the same name, so yes, that would be much more worrying.

Keep well. :)

Can we stop saying "rape fantasy"?

You're not fantasizing about being raped. Because you cannot enjoy being raped. That is the distinguishing point between consensual and nonconsensual sex.

Calling it a "rape fantasy" gives more fuel to rape apologists saying things like "girls really want it deep down because LOOK SO MANY HAVE FANTASIES ABOUT BEING RAPED so how are the men supposed to know that no REALLY means no and not 'oh nooo~ no~~~~'???"

It's a ravishment fantasy. It's a submission fantasy. It's a "I want you to just dominate me" fantasy.

"Rape fantasy" is an oxymoron.

Yes. But there are also lots of women into vanilla sex or even in BDSM where they are in the dominant role. And yet it is all but impossible to get femdom or vanilla porn that doesn't have hint of gender roles, alpha males, or BDSM in all but name published. So this isn't just about women's fantasies. It is about focusing on the fantasies of one particular set of women, fantasies that play into society's gender norms, and ignoring the fantasies of women that are outside those norms.

Well, men control most of the live action porn industry. So it shouldn't be much of a surprise that they tend to make porn that supports the structure that favours men.

Hooray for porny fanart. Much more representative.

Well, yes. Exactly. Which is why I think that there is a difference between criticizing women for liking romance novels and criticizing the industry that controls what gets published.

Unfortunately, ease of access has a great influence on what you like, and until recently, before the internet, it was hard to get much choice except that overwhelmingly controlled by men. The only other option was to write your own erotica/drew your own erotic art (which I did from when I was a teenager).

If you only see a certain genre as you grow up, the chances are that will become come fixed as the thing you expect and look for. Most people aren't writers and/or porn actors/erotic artists.

The growth of internet amateur erotica, especially slash, is actually pretty exciting. I think it's still in its infancy, and might be more powerful than just a way for millions of women to get off. It has the potential to change how we see women's sexuality.

Listen, far be it from me to defend the porn industry, but that shit is unrestrained capitalism at its finest. The porn industry, in general, does not give a single shit about what they're making porn about. They'll just follow the trends and make what people want to watch.

That doesn't mean that sexism doesn't play a role! You could certainly argue that it plays a role in determining sexual desires and hence what the market wants. But I find it difficult to believe that the porn industry is enforcing patriarchal sexual practices through its production.

ayrt

I think we're actually in agreement?

Until recently, the ones who paid money for porn were overwhelmingly men.

So capitalism decreed that the market supplied porn that overwhelmingly catered to men.

ie enforcing patriarchal sexual practices through its production.

I never said they did it on purpose. On the contrary, they did it because that's what made the most money, and was the most mainstream. Isn't that the whole point?

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(Anonymous) - 2014-12-18 02:52 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-12-18 03:05 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2014-12-18 05:19 (UTC) - Expand

thank you

IDK, I think in a past FS thread, people linked to a study that showed that the same proportion of women and men report that "being forced to have sex" is a fantasy of theirs (about 30%).

Of course, self-reporting is always unreliable, so you definitely need to take that with a grain of salt, but just because you happen to be in the part of the female population that enjoys being tied up and dominated doesn't mean that's the case for all women; doesn't mean there don't exist men who have the exact same fantasy; and doesn't mean you're alone in being a woman who enjoys that either. My boyfriend and I are both in that category.

BTW, do MRAs really believe women want to be raped??! I thought that was more of a evopsych position (although I wouldn't be surprised if there is overlap between them -- I just think of MRA types to be the kind of people that argue that women and men rape people and are raped i.e. rape isn't AS gendered as people claim it to be).

d/a

I agree, and I think this ties in nicely with the notion that women are a hivemind: 'Oh, some of you like X? That must mean that ALL of you like X...', and no one remembers that not everyone is into/enjoys the same things.

That's the problem with sexism, or homophobia, or racism, or any -ism.

One woman likes something = all women like it, because they're not considered to have their own personalities, but be entirely ruled by being female.

The same goes for all gay people, or all members of a certain ethnicity, if you only see them as that and nothing else. It's almost the definition of prejudice.

Yup. This is what gets me the most about this whole topic. :(

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