[ SECRET POST #359 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #359 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS. Also, one possibly triggering image!

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 240 secrets from Secret Submission Post #052.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 2 3 ] not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 ] repeats, [ 1 2 ] too big, [ 1 ] huh?
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Sunday, December 30th, 2007.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 13

[(Anonymous)]

So, um, how come men don't have to prove they're "worth" having equal rights? Do you think gay people need to prove they're "worth" marriage and adoption rights? What about racial minorities? Do you think they need to "prove" their "worth" in order to be treated like human beings, too?

Seriously, wtf.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Oh, but men do have to prove themselves. To angry, pissed off, mace-carrying, ball-busting femnazis who automatically assume that if it has a penis it's gonna rape them and chain them to the kitchen stove. (And before you call me a fucktard for sticking up for men during a feminist debate, I'll also remind you that these femnazis bash housewives for 'setting the women's movement back' just because they'd rather raise a family and be domestic than kick everyone's ass. Just covering my bases here!)

Re: 13

[somnambulicious.livejournal.com]

Nice strawman. If you have to resort to hyperbole just to find an example of how feminism hurts poor little men, I'd think that such an occurrence would be a statistical outlier - an interesting footnote, perhaps, but nothing compared to the injustices women suffer on a daily basis, and nothing really worth commenting on.

The ball-busting feminist - much like the yeti or the 'reverse racist' - may exist as a novelty, but not in large enough populations to have much of an effect on the overall environment, which is sexist and racist to begin with. Misandry isn't systemic the way misogyny is, and therefore it doesn't warrant the same concern.

And can we please nix the word "feminazi?" Using a word invented by Rush "Only Dykes Wear Cotton Underwear" Limbaugh doesn't exactly fit with your "be nice, don't be a bitch" paradigm.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Just because something's not a widespread threat doesn't make it any less a bad thing. Treating people like shit based on their gender is stupid no matter how you slice it.

And excuse me for using the only term I could think of at the time. Though I suppose 'rabid feminist' might have been a better choice.

Re: 13

[somnambulicious.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, being an ass is generally a bad thing. That's not the issue I was addressing. I want to know why, in a discussion of sexism, someone always has to bring up the "women sometimes hate men, too!" thing. In a discussion of racism, would you pipe up with "but once there was this black guy who used the term 'white devil'"? If a friend complained to you about homophobia, would you bring up that gay bar in Miami where they don't allow straight people?

No, because it's not relevant. What's more, bringing up those outlying circumstances takes attention away from the real, systemic problem of racism/homophobia/sexism and could make those problems look less serious than they are. It's unnecessary and even harmful to soften a blow that deservedly hits hard.

Also, we rabid feminists prefer the term "radical feminists." We're a little sensitive about our foaming-at-the-mouth issue.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Fine, it wasn't relevant. But you could've simply said 'that's irrelevant' rather than going all Snark-Snark Discussion Police on me.

Re: 13

[drworm.livejournal.com]

Nah, I think you needed to know why it wasn't relevant.

Re: 13

[karel]

Because they must blind you with their superior reasoning skills and make you realize how wrong you really are. Duh.

Re: 13

[moebot.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, I think I'm in love with you.

Re: 13

[mildmay.livejournal.com]

I believe in my women's issues classes we called them "radical feminists?" I always thought it was a good term.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

*nods* That sounds about right. :)

Re: 13

[(Anonymous)]

♥ ♥ ♥

I just want to say that I love you and want to have your Internet babies. It's been a long time since I've gotten to see someone pwn this hard!

Re: 13

[amazinglynot.livejournal.com]

But they don't have to prove themselves to get fair wages, or to vote, or to be able to have sex without being labeled a whore. Men are undeniably more privileged than women, and by no more virtue than their chromosomes. There are misandrists in this wide world, and their position is no more defensible than the misogynists, but the problem is one is institutionalized while the other is at best a fringe movement.

(er, sorry to butt in, by the way! sorry if this is rude or incomprehensible, aheh.)

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

True. Ugh, that pisses me off because EVERYONE should have to prove themselves to get good wages, and ANYONE who sleeps around is a whore.

Re: 13

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, what?

I don't think anyone should be called a whore for sleeping around. What's wrong with enjoying sex, even a lot of it? As long as all your partners know what you're doing and are okay with it, and you practice safe sex, why is it a bad thing to sleep around?

(And really, I think someone who cheats on their established partner is an asshole and someone who doesn't practice safe sex is stupid, but I'm not sure it'd be appropriate to apply "whore" to either of those scenarios either.)

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

...yeeeeah, looks like I overgeneralized a bit there! No, sleeping with more than one person doesn't make a whore, but I was thinking more along the lines of 'fuck everyone and everything or cheating on a significant other or using sex to get their way', not people who have active and healthy sex lives. Sorry if I offended!

Re: 13

[moebot.livejournal.com]

This entire comment is so, so ridiculous.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Okay, I believe we've established here that I am Very Wrong. Now, will you accept my apology and admission that I fucked up, or would you like to punish me with a rant on why I'm So Stupid?

Re: 13

[moebot.livejournal.com]

No, I am just here to tell you that this comment is ridiculous.

Nice victim complex, though.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

No, you're wrong. A victim complex would be this:

"FINE! I'm SORRY, okay?! God, why is everyone out to hurt me over a dumb comment?! Just rip my heart out and insult my dad while you're at it, I'll just go sit in a corner and cut myself!!!! /wrist"

What I was doing was called being defensive. See species "puffer fish".

Re: 13

[moebot.livejournal.com]

You're the one that used the word "punish," homes.

Re: 13

[karel]

Really? Because I've met women like this. One of my sociology professors was a bit, if I might say, frothing at the mouth about it. Quite a few female cops I've met are like this. Many of my classmates have been like this.

Not saying that it has anything to do with the argument, but women like this do exist and it's the minority that can in many cases give the majority a bad name because the minority tends to be more vocal (or at least be heard more) than the majority.

Re: 13

[moebot.livejournal.com]

I did not say that women like that don't exist. I know they exist. I get ticked off at feminists just as often as I get ticked off as non-feminists, possibly even more! I was just commenting that what sarajayechan said, on the whole, was ridiculous and ignores the issue of institutionalized sexism, instead focusing on the individual, which does not work in a debate that's been using generalizations so far.

I don't really want to argue this point and get into a whole thing here (then why comment, right?), because while I agree with the argument that's been used against your initial comment, I don't want to contribute to the illegalism pile-on party, since I think you really do mean well. Cheers.

Re: 13

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Can't we all just admit we've been a bunch of twats and move on with our lives?

Re: 13

[karel]

*nods* A bit irrelevant (though it is still problematic when women do go out of their way to make males' lives miserable), but several other comments had said that they were few and far between (I'm not sure if it's just my social location, but I run into a good deal of them, perhaps a university thing?), so I thought that was what you were reinforcing.

At any rate (since I don't want to get into a whole thing either, but it seems I did ^^') yeah. And thanks.