[ SECRET POST #2938 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2938 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Constantine]


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03.
[Dragon Age]


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04.
[Merlin]


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05.
[Pokemon]


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06.
[The Americans]


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07.
[Doctor Who]


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08.
[Twisted Toyfare]


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09.
[Black Books]


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10.
[World of Warcraft]













Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 046 secrets from Secret Submission Post #420.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Are you me, OP?

I've tried so many times to A) play as anything other than female human noble and B) (after failing A) romance Leliana or Zevran, but I can't bring myself to do it at all.

I've never been able to turn down Morrigan's ritual either because I can't stand the thought of Alistair or my Warden dying. (Though I think I would save Alistair if I had to. He's just too precious)

[(Anonymous)]

da

I don't get why people wouldn't go through with Morrigan's ritual, or how the heck that's the "default world state" for DA:I. Like, why would you go "oh, you have a way to save everyone and we can all live happily? nah, I'd much rather make this a suicide thing."

[kallanda_lee]

I've heard the argument of: well, you'd be sacrificing an innocent baby...however, to me, I never really considered it a "normal" infant in the first place. And my logic is always to rescue an actual person over a potential person.

[(Anonymous)]

The baby doesn't die though?

[kallanda_lee]

Well, no instantly anyway. Though it's said that Wardens' lifespans are shortened the taint, which the child would have also, I believe. But then Morrigan might have magic to counteract that.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't seem like the boy is tainted though. Morrigan promised he would be a normal boy aside from the old god soul, and whatever ritual she did it seems it didn't have any ill consequences for Kieran.

[kallanda_lee]

I'm presuming this is something from Inquisition or the comics? In an case, you don't know that at the time, though.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes. And no you don't, but you have Morrigan's explanation and her assurance the child will be just fine. It all comes down to whether you believe her or not, of course. But never before had I seen someone worrying about the taint as a reason not to do it - it's always the old god soul and fear about what's Morrigan's plan.

[(Anonymous)]

You do know, though. The ritual involves conceiving a tainted child, yes, and she's characteristically opaque about what exactly the child will be like, but she seems to believe that the taint will be somehow canceled out when the child "absorbs" the archdemon's essence, leaving the child unharmed, albeit possessing a cleansed old god soul:

"From this ritual, a child shall be conceived within me. The child will bear the taint, and when the archdemon is slain, its essence will seek the child like a beacon. At this early stage, the child can absorb the essence and not perish. The archdemon is still destroyed, with no Grey Warden dying in the process. [...] [The child] will not be hurt. It will be changed. [...] The child will represent freedom for an ancient power, a chance to be reborn apart from the taint."

Obviously there's room for doubt, but I do doubt that Morrigan would consider a child with its lifespan severely shortened by the taint to be unharmed, and it wouldn't make sense for the archdemon essence to be cleansed but the child to remain tainted.

[darkmanifest]

It leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths that Alistair loathes everything about Morrigan, yet the Warden as his best friend can convince him to sleep with her (even, if not romancing him, lose his virginity to her). Worse when romancing him as a woman, so your Warden is encouraging her true love to knock up another woman (while she and Alistair will probably never have kids of their own together). Then add on the fact that you have no idea if this kid's gonna utterly wreck shit when he grows up, you've only got Morrigan's dubious word on it, the same chick who didn't blink an eye when sending someone to kill her mother. Lots of hinky stuff going on with that ritual, I'd say. I do it sometimes, depending on the character, tell Morrigan to step off other times.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

You nailed it.

I did the ritual with my 'canon' M!Cousland Warden. I played him as a goody two-shoes gay dude who wasn't up for romance what with the blight and the recent death of his entire family. He was besties with Morrigan and agreed to it because he was afraid of what would happen to Ferelden after the archdemon was killed.

I made Loghain do the ritual when I played as a lady Warden, but the idea of making Alistair do the ritual if you romanced him is really awful to me. I understand people don't want their Warden or Alistair killed because it ruins the fairytale ending, but imo it's really shitting all over Alistair to force him into the ritual. It's basically rape-by-proxy because you can't handle being a Grey Warden.

[darkmanifest]

Yup, that's pretty much how my first playthrough went, M!Cousland, didn't want to die or abandon Zevran, bit the bullet. So far I've never had Alistair do it. If my Warden is friendly with him, I bring the topic up with him because he has a right to know the option is there, but the relief he displays when my Warden lets him off the hook is pretty telling. If wishy-washy immature Alistair is able to put on his big-boy panties and risk death rather than resort to creepy sex magic, so can my Warden.

[(Anonymous)]

Dude it is not rape by proxy. It's coerced, yes, but Alistair has to agree to it, too. Morrigan is not the one threatening to kill either the Warden or Alistair. That circumstance is completely outside. All Morrigan is doing is offering a way out. She can literally not help that the ritual involves sex, and she forces no one, she explains the situation and asks for consent beforehand. If you don't do the ritual, one of you WILL die. I'd frankly much rather have sex with someone I can't stand than see me or my best friend (or lover) die. I think it's the most selfish to refuse the ritual if you're in love, because you're basically sentencing Alistair to die since he'll sacrifice himself, and even if he doesn't, he then has to lose you because you couldn't stomach one unpleasant thing that would let everyone leave happy. I mean, it's not a "fairytale ending", it's the most logical ending.

[(Anonymous)]

Which assumes the Warden taking Morrigan at her word. You don't see how that's not a 100% scenario?

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, sure, but seriously? The better alternative is to kill yourself or Alistair, rather then allow poor Alistair to have sex with Morrigan? How is that remotely a happy ending, especially if your Warden and Alistair are in love (when Alistair will actually take the sacrifice)? I agree that Morrigan's a total bitch, but she had every reason to kill her mother - her mother was going to basically kill her, after all.

I can't imagine ever rejecting Morrigan unless I was really determined for my character to die... but it just seems like a lame sacrifice because it was so easily preventable. Alistair's poor virginity just isn't worth my or his life.

[darkmanifest]

The point is that, no matter what, there is no happy ending without sacrifice - either somebody dies, or your lover sleeps with another woman, or you convince your best friend to knock up a woman he hates and unleash god knows what on the world just to save your two lives. (And the problem wasn't that she killed her mother, it's that she did it without hesitation. I love Morrigan to bits, but...that's not normal.)

And that's cool for you, I was just explaining the logic other people have for finding the decision difficult and morally dubious. I can't ever imagine sparing Loghain, but I understand why people do it.

[(Anonymous)]

There's really no evidence to suggest that she killed her mother "without hesitation." You talk to Morrigan to obtain the quest after she has had time to peruse Flemeth's grimoire and think about how to deal with the threat she poses to Morrigan's life. I mean, you can sort of cheat and leave camp and port right back in to get the quest, but the devs clearly intended for some time (possibly weeks) to pass between giving her the grimoire and getting the quest to kill Flemeth.

Morrigan doesn't like showing vulnerability, so of course she's not going to "blink an eye" when she tells you about a big decision she's been thinking about for awhile. It doesn't mean it was an easy decision for her to make; her emotions for her mother are very complicated.

[darkmanifest]

There's evidence in her lack of emotional display, you just interpret it differently than I do in that you believe she felt plenty of things she didn't show, whereas I believe she didn't feel as much about it as most people would. Regardless, my whole point is that Morrigan is not to be relied upon as a moral compass, whether she hides her true feelings about doing terrible things, or has comparatively stunted feelings about said things, either way, not the person I would trust when asking the question "Will this dragon child you want eventually fuck up the world?"

[(Anonymous)]

... it's canon that Morrigan hides a lot of her true feelings. Have you never gotten her approval all the way up? Your interpretation is incorrect, and pretty shallow to boot.

[darkmanifest]

Played her best friend in two playthroughs and her lover in one other. She came right out and said I was her closest friend and her beloved, no great secret mystery there. My Warden knew what s/he was to Morrigan. No such transparency of emotion when it came to Flemeth, making my interpretation as valid as yours.

[(Anonymous)]

My (female Cousland) Warden made the Ultimate Sacrifice without giving it a second thought. Morrigan's ritual was a horrifying idea for her -- giving an unborn child the soul of an ancient false-god dragon? Which might also be influenced by being an Archdemon? And doing who-knows-what to the actual soul of the baby (or the soul the Maker would have put in it, or however it works), to boot. There's also the fact that this was being done by Morrigan, who the Warden liked, but, well, you'd think she'd be a bit more wary of the idea of creating a child specifically to be the victim of mystic soul-transfer experimentation, given her background. (And there's also the fact that this could very well have been an idea planted in her head by Flemeth for her own reasons. Morrigan learned all she knew about magic from Flemeth, and I wouldn't trust Flemeth to give her complete and accurate information in the slightest, meaning it's hard to trust what Morrigan says about the ritual not causing any problems.) Creating some potential god-monster-abomination that could do who-knows-what to the world just to save her own life struck my Warden as very, very selfish and short-sighted. It broke her heart to send Morrigan away, but given the circumstances, she just had to.

After that, it came down to her or Alistair for the sacrifice, and again it was no contest. She'd gotten Alistair and Anora married -- Alistair had the bloodline, and Anora the actual ruling skills. It was what was best for Ferelden. Sacrificing Alistair would undo all that and send the country back into chaos. The Warden... well, she theoretically had a brother still out there, even if she doubted in her heart he was still alive. The Cousland line might not be extinct, and even if it was, the loss of a Teyrn's family was far less important than the loss of a king. Her only regret was leaving Leliana alone... but again, one person is a small price to pay for saving the world.

[(Anonymous)]

It's never referred to as a "false god" - it's an Old God.

Morrigan says the baby won't be harmed, and will be fine. Morrigan and Flemeth also clearly state that they are against the Blight. It's their world, too, they wouldn't concoct another Archdemon because that would make no sense.

Of course it's a seedy ritual. Distrust at Morrigan's baby is perhaps the only legitimate reasons to deny the ritual, and I was not that worried. In fact I was hoping to see the baby featured in later games. MOrrigan's a bitch, but I don't think she's evil. She wants the baby for her own purposes, but is also offering a lifeline to the wardens. Why not take it.

[(Anonymous)]

And pretty much everyone in the setting does, in fact, believe the Old Gods are false gods. It doesn't need to be referred to as such in the dialogue with Morrigan about the ritual when it's been stated elsewhere that humans and many city elves believe the only true god is the Maker, Dalish and the other city elves believe the true gods are the Creators, and the dwarves don't believe in any gods at all.

[(Anonymous)]

The human character might but there is no reason for an outsider to refer to them as such? Especially since Morrigan herself calls it an Old God, and the baby is always coined the "Old God Baby" (even on Dragon Age Keep) it seems weird for a gamer to impose which gods are fake and which gods are real.

[(Anonymous)]

(Anon who started this branch)

But the fact remains that my female Cousland would indeed think of it as a false god. And I was playing her in character. This wasn't the first time she'd made a decision that was to her detriment gameplay-wise -- when the Crows attacked her, and one of the assassins claimed he wanted to work for her and totally take her side, honest, she didn't believe him. She felt sure that taking an assassin into her camp would just open her up to having her throat slit one night, regardless of how much he swore that the Crows wouldn't take him back. And so she sent Zevran away, losing a party member before he even joined. Just because I as the player knew he'd never do that, didn't mean I could justify my character thinking the same thing.

Furthermore, you don't have to be a devout follower of the Maker to think that bringing back an Old God in one form or another could be a very dangerous thing. They were powerful enough to draw the civilization of the time into worshipping them -- what would they do if brought back and given their own will and power? For that matter, what if Flemeth essentially tricked Morrigan into doing this because she could, say, jump into the body once it was mature, merging with the Old God's soul and gaining its powers for herself? I don't think we can trust the witch who explicitly raised girls just for the purpose of stealing their bodies *not* to do something like that if she could...

That's just a couple of the ways it could go wrong. There are so many others, and so few ways it could actually turn out *well*, that I'm a little surprised so many people think it's the 'right' thing to do, instead of just a risky, somewhat unsavory way to save their own skin.