[ SECRET POST #3104 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3104 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.









Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 071 secrets from Secret Submission Post #444.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

02. http://i.imgur.com/blhKCh3.png

[(Anonymous)]

Are you really honest with that 'this would be cool' sentiment though? I mean, I would read maybe a fic like that, but...

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Well, it's just that I feel like otherwise it would tend to come across as a bit of Generation Xerox and that Sharon would basically be redundant in her role.

We already have QUITE a few female SHIELD agents in the MCU (both Natasha and Maria Hill in the MCU currently, ignoring the TV shows where Peggy in Agent Carter works for the SSR and then there's TONS in Agents of SHIELD).

More than that, though, we haven't had a female villain. And she wouldn't even necessarily need to STAY a villain -- a redemption arc, I think, could be pretty cool as well.

Otherwise, though, I just feel like her arc is going to lack originality and be something we've seen before.

There's just some twisted logic I like to it -- that Sharon could be targeted by Hydra precisely because she's related to Peggy. Which not only would make people less likely to suspect that she's HYDRA but would make it the ultimate insult/wound towards Peggy and her legacy. (Besides infiltrating SHIELD).

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

If we're going to be getting a female villain at all, I don't think the best choice would be a bizarro version of a good character. Sounds like darkfic territory.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I like it.

[lentils]

I'm not sure I would call it "character hate" but it is...suspicious? I guess? Considering that she's already getting shit on by a lot of fandom for a bunch of stupid reasons despite getting like 20 minutes of screentime. I'm just not sure this is the right place to go looking for a female villain.

The idea is kind of interesting, if we could ignore that. But sorry to say that if I see somebody arguing this, I'm gonna be wary of their reasoning unless they make it VERY CLEAR that it's not for sketchy anti-Sharon reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

I suppose part of my problem is that I feel like giving Sharon a straight up "good guy" storyline will make her redundant in the context of the story.

If she's Steve's ally, one of the SHIELD agents that stayed loyal to Fury and fights on his side, well, how does that make her significantly different than, say, Maria Hill?

If, as in the comics, she becomes Steve's love interest, then we get a very similar story to Peggy's. Steve meets a government agent named Carter and falls in love with her and they fight side by side.

Plus, it kind of bothers me, honestly, that so far women in the MCU have ONLY been on the side of good, really.

And I feel like Sharon could be really good for showcasing a villain of moral complexity (instead of someone like Brock Rumlow whose just straight up evil). With her having watched Peggy dedicate her life to SHIELD but see it infiltrated by Hydra anyway. I think there's a really good arc that could be done about the tragedy of cynicism in the modern age.

[(Anonymous)]

well, how does that make her significantly different than, say, Maria Hill?

You seem to be reeeeally focused on really broad-stroke "Roles" rather than actual, you know. Characterisation. There is actually room in storytelling for more than one ticky-box on each side.

Her romance with Steve (should one ever happen) is only automatically "a very similar story to Peggy's" if you think that "meets agent named Carter, falls in love, fights side by side with" is all there was to Steve and Peggy to start with. That's not actually characterisation, or even story-telling: that's a ticky box. It's really, really shallow.

It's like these aren't characters with actual stories, they're archetype-ciphers, and you see nothing else to them. People who actually really love a character? Aren't gonna appreciate that.

[(Anonymous)]

The more I'm thinking about what you're writing, the more it's actually coming across as kinda sexist.

You're basically looking at female characters as nothing more than tropes or tabs to fit into slots. "We already have a female on the side of good! It doesn't make sense to have another one!" Where are your complaints about all of the good male characters? Aren't they redundant? I mean, there's a whole shit-ton of them. Shouldn't we only have one, maybe two?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I feel like the problem is that the only reason you don't see why people regard it as character hate is because you're coming from a perspective that's pretty markedly negative about Sharon to start with.

It's kind of like you're saying, "It's not character hate! She's just a really awful character, and this would fix those issues!" But people who like Sharon Carter probably like Sharon Carter as she is, and don't want her shoved out of the way to preserve Steve's relationship with Peggy, or for whatever other reason. And they also don't want her made evil.

I don't think that's impossible to comprehend.

[(Anonymous)]

I could see it as character hate if I wanted her killed off, written out, or her story minimized.

But I don't see how wanting to see Sharon in a complex villain role is character bashing?

Like, I've frequently spoken about how excited I am that Tony Stark could play an antagonist role in Civil War because I DO think, even though he might not be a straight up good guy, that it would make for a very interesting development (and deepening) of his character. Taking Tony's flaws and forcing him to be accountable for them and facing long-term negative consequences.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I think there's probably a way to talk about that where it's not bashing. But it's a really thin line to walk - because wanting to transition the character into a totally different role, where they're evil, it's hard to justify that without being basically critical of the character.

And you are doing it yourself. I mean, all the stuff about how she doesn't have a role in the universe as it stands, and the stuff about how she's a Peggy clone - that's kinda bashy, man.

[(Anonymous)]

"I just want this female character to be a crypto-neo-Nazi because I think everything about her as-is is really dumb."

Does that translation help?

[(Anonymous)]

But, to be fair, in the MCU (not the comics) she hasn't had much to do yet nor much screentime. I'm not saying what she's done as of yet is dumb (because she hasn't really had enough development to decide on anything) but more making suggestions on directions they could go in with her character that wouldn't be treading old ground and could give us something we haven't had in the MCU yet (a female villain).

[elaminator]

You might have completely legitimate reasons to want Sharon as a villain (it sounds like you've thought this through and feel like it would be an interesting change for the MCU), but I'm not sure I can agree about wanting it. Marvel has already done the 'Hydra agents in SHIELD' storyline, and I kind of want to move on from it.

Now I do hope Sharon gets a chance to shine on her own and isn't a 'Peggy clone', but I'm not sure this is the plot-line I would want to see in an attempt of avoiding that.

[nightscale]

I think it's an interesting idea to explore in fic, like with the other dark!character stuff, but as far as canon goes I'd rather they stick along the same lines as her comic book origins and story, that and she was loyal to Fury so I can't see her being a double(triple) agent of evil. Besides as far as female villains go I'd rather they pull one from the comics in, like Enchantress or Viper.

[(Anonymous)]

This is some good secret-making.

[(Anonymous)]

I do think there needs to be more female villains in the MCU but Nebula and Jiaying do exist. So it's not like we've never had a female villain. Implying that we haven't have any is wrong.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no bone in this fight either way because I don't care about comics at all, but I will say that Nebula, Ellen Brandt (the Extremis lady) and even Wanda Maximoff would like to have a word with you about that "FINALLY a female villain in the MCU" part.

[(Anonymous)]

sa

Also Maya Hansen. D'oh, self.

And that's not even going into the TV side of things.

[(Anonymous)]

Because it would be OOC?

[iggy]

Because it would turn her into a literal nazi?

I don't particularly think she comes across as a Peggy clone in the MCU.

[(Anonymous)]

HYDRA is not a "literal nazi" organization, according to movie canon.

It's not even subtext, it's plaintext. HYDRA was actually fighting the nazis from 1943 on.

Pierce's HYDRA is totalitarian, fascistic and genocidal but they don't have the batshit racism or the "Aryan" worship, according to what was shown in the movie itself.

Nazism is not the only evil in the world, you know. It it totally possible to create a fictional evil organization that is trying to take over the world and kill lots and lots of people on the way to their goal without making them "literal nazis".

Kind of OT but...

[(Anonymous)]

Both the secret and the discussion made me realize I would love to see Sharon keeping her ties with the government/CIA and spying on SHIELD to make sure the organization doesn't stray again and to keep allies that can fight them if the do.

For me, that would be more interested than the perfect and loyal SHIELD agent.

[(Anonymous)]

Somebody didn't see Guardians of the Galaxy.