[ SECRET POST #3141 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3141 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #449.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. http://i.imgur.com/aRTiZgD.png

[(Anonymous)]

They're not real people, though. They're fictional characters. It would be wrong to decide they were irredeemable if they were real people. But they're fictional characters whose existence is bound to their specific presentation and actions in the fiction. It's reasonable to evaluate the fiction as it is given and to approach characters in the way that they're presented. It's not the same as a moral judgment on a real, living human being. There is a fundamental categorical difference here, for God's sake.

Also, in both the cases you reference here, I don't want to read about them being redeemed, because they're unlikable twerps and I don't like reading about them.

[kallanda_lee]

Hmm, I dunno. In this case I'd be suspicious that a person who feels like that about fictional characters, would feel that way about real life teens, too. Mostly because I experienced the mentality.

It's completely fair not wanting to read stories about it, but I am wary of people who put people or characters in the "irredeemable" category very quickly.

[(Anonymous)]

I doubt the characters will be hurt by somebody making a moral judgement against them.

[(Anonymous)]

Uuuuh, I never see anything from Vriska that seems truly like she's trying to be any better than before, but I stopped a while back.

On the other hand, what helped me more on Malfoy's front was the actor in the sixth movie. He was genuinely pained and torn, and that helped my opinion of him.


I still hate the Draco-in-Leather-Pants trope, tho

[(Anonymous)]

but vriska's only a teenager

maybe after she goes to college and moves out and gets a real job she'll really mature. settle down with someone nice, get a job in marketing, eventually buy a home out in the suburbs. who knows

[kaijinscendre]

I guess it depends on what kind of villain they are? Because some people can't change. Even if they are 16, 13, or 10. Some people are just...evil or become that way at a very early age and it can't be reversed.

[(Anonymous)]

Hence the existence of the Tea Party.

[(Anonymous)]

Most of the people that say that are only teens themselves, and if there is one thing tumblr has taught us it is that teens and tweens can be very rigid and black and white in their thinking. Given fifteen or twenty more years and they'll see a more finessed view of the world.

[(Anonymous)]

There's so many fics about them being redeemable. Don't see how you got "fandom thinks they're irredeemable" when there are literal tropes around redeeming these guys.

[(Anonymous)]

Clearly you haven't looked at the tumblr tags for either of these characters.

[(Anonymous)]

what do you mean fandom isn't a hivemind

[(Anonymous)]

Don't know about the cartoon whatever, but the Harry Potter fandom is a fandom that is pretty much fine with a sixteen year old girl being facially scarred for life for telling the teacher about a school club that was against the rules (and may have been threatened into doing so). I'm pretty certain those guys are fine with calling someone irredeemable and attacking anyone who queries this. Despite one of the messages of the series being (supposedly, apart from the aforementioned facial scarring) to learn to let go of your high school grudges before they consume your life and you die horribly.

[(Anonymous)]

mte lol

I'm pretty sure fandom has the OPPOSITE problem in regards to Draco. He is a woobie misunderstood baby. his fandom named the trope.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not surprised. Lots of people hold grudges against adults in the real world for things they did when they were teenagers, even if they've completely changed since then.

[(Anonymous)]

I think for me, at least, it's how they're often made out to be irredeemable.

Look at Draco. In canon, he did redeem himself - he didn't ever want to kill Dumbledore, and when questioned about who the trio was, he was extremely reluctant to give them away. He also mourned friends who he'd only ever treated as tag-alongs. In fanon, he went from calling Hermione a mudblood to wearing leather pants and being woobified and everything was instantly forgiven.

[diet_poison]

That's taking steps towards redemption, not full redemption.

Though I do think Draco is a character who could be redeemed well - it just never fully happened in canon.

[philstar22]

The characters you chose to picture are strange considering that Draco is pretty much the most woobified character in the Potter fandom and very few see him as irredeemable.

[(Anonymous)]

Except I wasn't in a nazi group at 16 nor murdered people.

[diet_poison]

This is interesting. Both of the characters you chose had a shot at redemption that kind of got ruined - Malfoy because he was too spineless, iirc (though he could still have chosen to become a better person post-canon and that would help) and Vriska because she decided to murder someone and it all went downhill from there. I was especially sad about Vriska because I always liked her, and I feel like Hussie made that crash and burn quite on purpose - and now she's become kind of an annoying stereotype, not the character I loved in Act V :/

(I'm behind on Homestuck right now though, haven't read much of her beyond her kinda boring dicking around with Meenah a while ago)

[(Anonymous)]

The fandom loves Draco and totally views him as redeemable, what are you on OP? Did you see two people call him irredeemable and decide that was it? Hell, wasn't there some backlash against JK a little bit back cause she implied he wasn't redeemable or a victim of his circumstances?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, real people do change a lot from childhood to adulthood. As far as fiction goes, it really depends upon the values and ideas of the author. They get to dictate how that all pans out. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them by any stretch, but they are the ones who control the course of their stories and characters.

[(Anonymous)]

When the teenager in question is a mass-murdering psychopath who cripples people they call friends, considering them irredeemable is fair play.

The school bully, on the other hand, yeah that's stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

You're right about that, anon. Characters change. But most of HP fandom think Draco is pretty redeemable.

[(Anonymous)]

I like when the asshole characters act like assholes in fics because that's usually why I'm drawn to their character in the first place. But I agree with you that it's silly to insist that a teenage character would never grow or mature. And it especially gets under my skin when someone has a double standard, e.g. Pansy is an irredeemable bitch, but Draco was just misunderstood or vice versa.