[ SECRET POST #3215 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3215 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Disney's Descendants]


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03.


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04. [SPOILERS for Undertale]



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05. [SPOILERS for Ancillary Mercy]



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06. [SPOILERS for Great British Bake Off, series 6]



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07. [SPOILERS for Defiance]



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08. [SPOILERS for shepherd's crown]



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09. [WARNING for abuse]














Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #459.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. [WARNING for abuse]
http://i.imgur.com/EY8APqI.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Well, most of them are fortunate enough never to have any real experience with murder or abuse, which makes it easier to romanticize in their heads. Especially if the lead is physically attractive. Then there's the small fraction of fans who aren't quite that naive, but who still enjoy it for harder to explain reasons... kind of like how some women end up being serial killer groupies. Their priorities are a bit screwy.

[(Anonymous)]

And much like everything else, some people who have way too much experience with it use it to process or relate to or control their own feelings and memories in particular ways.

Cf: rape-survivors and non-con fic. And not all survivors of any kind of bad thing being the same.

Some people like their fiction to never come anywhere near the bad shit they personally have experienced; some people find comfort and catharsis by diving right into the middle of it and dealing with it in a fictional context. Some flip-flop depending on the day.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry you went through that and that others' interest makes you tense but...not everyone carries your particular set of baggage, and there are a variety of reasons s people might like it.

Maybe they find people wbo are so different fascinating. Maybe it's stress relief. Could be anything really.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree OP. I've never understood the appeal of fucked up relationships - fucked up characters, sometimes, but not fucked up relationships. Maybe it's because I've endured a lot of emotional abuse from my family, but I really can't enjoy the depiction.

It's better than dysfunctional family portrayals though. They actively make me distressed and I usually have to leave the room :(

[kaijinscendre]

I can get the people who like in some kind of twisted and fucked up way. At least they are acknowledging it is fucked up.

I can't get the people who think it is a loving, healthy, and/or consensual relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

(YMMV, just my opinion)

I think some of the appeal is the thrill of the idea of danger, though most people are probably secure in it not happening to them IRL, which makes it a "safe" fantasy.

Kudos to you for getting out of your bad times! Keep up the good work!

[gobbledigook]

Everything about this is unsettling to me, but in my case it actually helps understand that people might get off on it. I mean, -of course- someone gets off on it, you know?

[(Anonymous)]

I liked Pushing Daisies but I can't get into it for the same reasons as you op (minus the abuse survivor part). I also wonder if it isn't the kind of show being edgy for the sake of being edgy.

[(Anonymous)]

Me too anon, me too!

[sarillia]

Are you only talking about the glorified depictions of these kinds of relationships or people finding it interesting at all? Those seem like two very different things. People find a lot of terrible things interesting, which is how we get a lot of drama and tragedy and horror. I can understand being uncomfortable with that if you have a personal connection to the topic, like several people I know who refuse to watch anything involving cancer for that reason, but there's still a difference between being interested in a topic and fetishizing it and it seems like this secret is talking about the first and some of it is talking about the second.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm an abuse survivor and I kind of... like emotionally fucked up relationships in fiction? Not all of them - I can't really predict what will upset me and what I'll find cathartic in a way, but yeah. Some of it I like. I also recognize how fucked up it is though, which I feel makes all the difference among fans of that kind of thing.

Not a fan of this show . . .

[feotakahari]

But the villainy isn't always the interesting part. Sometimes what's interesting is the mix--the character who's deeply messed up in some ways, actually cares in other ways, and is trying to be loving in some fashion. It's not pretty, but it's intriguing to take it apart and look at how it functions (or fails to function.) Other times, the people around the abuser are interesting as they bend and twist themselves into positions where they can ignore or rationalize the abuse.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I had to give up on Hannibal fast because I hated the character to a distressing degree, and I knew the narrative was going to just keep fawning over what an evil genius he is, make people continually fall for his bullshit, and hand him victories. Other people called him deliciously evil, I just wanted to see somebody punch him in the dick 100 times.

I hate seeing that kind of abuse and I hate it when it always works and they get away with it because the author is on their side.

[a_potato]

I first saw 'The Exorcist' when I was 7, which was a bit too young. It gave me nightmares. But after a few weeks, I started incorporating the demon into my games. I imagined him joining the team of superheroes I'd made up and being something of a comic relief. I didn't realize I was doing it at the time, but looking back, it's clear to me that I was robbing the thing that scared me of its power.

I think that's one of the reasons why people do what you're talking about. They take this thing that's disturbing and scary and make it light and fluffy and even romantic, because then they don't have to be disturbed and scared anymore.

this took way too long and will probably read like gibberish

[elaminator]

I'm sorry about what you went through; no one should have to.

That said, I do enjoy this show and this pairing. I won't say that because something is fictional you should be able to endure it or like it or even understand the appeal of it, because if you find it morally reprehensible IRL there is a great chance that you will find it just as morally reprehensible in fiction and not want to go anywhere near it. This has not been the case for me, though I admit that I don't have a personal history of abuse, so if I did maybe that wouldn't allow me to enjoy the show.

I do realize that Hannibal is an evil, terrible person. I do think Hannibal/Will is fucked up, it is abusive and it is in no way a relationship that anyone should ever want for themselves; if they do, that's extremely concerning.

But I'm not going to lie and say it doesn't interest me, because it does. Hannibal is in some ways a walking contradiction and feels almost otherworldly because of how detached from our sense of morality he is, and Will is both an incredibly sympathetic character and a messed up one.

The thing is, if Hannibal was completely unlikable there would be far fewer fans. (And I know this is subjective, and that there will of course be people who hate Hannibal anyway, but the show very much tries to make Hannibal appealing on certain levels. For me and many others they succeeded.) Despite the fact that he's a horrible person and does appalling things on a regular basic, Mads makes Hannibal strangely likable. (He's an actor, that's the job. The gallows humor the show adopts is another part of the appeal for me; not that the show doesn't take itself seriously, but it isn't exactly grimdark either.) Picking apart his thoughts and motivations (and trying to understand his twisted logic) is lots of fun for me.

The show even makes Hannibal slightly (at moments, if you look at events from his POV) sympathetic too. (Not saying it makes sense because you know better, but a good piece of media can make you feel things you didn't expect to. Even things you maybe shouldn't. So, yea, the writing really helps.)

I've never seen the show saying that what Hannibal does is alright though, or that Hannibal and Will's relationship is healthy; it goes out of its way to show you that it is not, but despite that the relationship exists because neither character can let go and both characters understand each other in a way no one else can. Hannibal and Will aren't simple characters own their own, but once you add in their relationship...well, there's a lot to think about. I do find their dynamic, as depraved as it is, fascinating.

But as far as unpleasantness goes there is lots of unpleasant subject matter in fiction, and lots of people enjoy that media for many different reasons. Why isn't always simple to explain, but I don't see the harm in it if the person is aware of what they're getting into. (I mean, what about people who love villains in general? Are they wrong for liking a character who does bad things? Should people only like media where all the characters are decent people and all the relationships are healthy and ideal? I do absolutely think people should acknowledge the faults of the characters, pairings and media they're into, but as long as they do that...I don't see the problem.)

[dahli]

Fiction =/= Reality, I guess.

I didn't watch the show past the first five(?) episodes (I lost track after the dentist or whatever was murdered), but I did find the relationship interesing in a fucked up way. That doesn't mean I would condone that kind of relationship irl nor would I like to be in one, but it makes an interesting story.

Also, like people said up there, it's kinda coping for some of us.

[purpleseas]

Fannibals didn't invent dark humor or the broad fannish tendency to engage with dark material in light and silly ways (and vice versa), so I don't know why we're always getting guff for it, but okay. I sure don't agree with your characterization of it, but if it's not for you, it's not for you. What's to understand? It seems more like you want justifications for liking it than actual reasons, which I'm not going to give you, but I really wish people would remember that what you like in fiction often has absolutely nothing to do with what you'd approve of or want to participate in in real life. Not all love stories are aspirational, and it's often the really twisted ones that grab your imagination. There's nothing wrong with that.

[(Anonymous)]

That's nice. You don't understand the appeal. Okay.

Abuse survivor here. Still coping with the emotional fallout of the abuse. There's so much noise in my head and intense twisted FICTIONAL relationships are sweet nectar, especially as I am hardwired (pre-abuse) to find BDSM hot (I've never liked vanilla at all). Irl consensual pain and power plays, we pretend, we make a fiction that one person has power over another. Unshockingly, I like fiction where one person has power over another. But I never pretend that they don't.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I wasn't enjoying it very much either, just watching because my partner was, but then in one of the early episodes I realised that it doesn't actually work as anything but fiction - it has to be an alternate universe. I can't remember exactly what made this happen for me (possibly Hannibal-magic meaning they couldn't trace that phone call he made to Jacob Garrett Hobbes?) but then I could watch this entirely fictional world perfectly happily knowing that it was nothing to do with the real world.

[(Anonymous)]

Is it just me, or is "I don't understaaaaaaand!" the latest version of "I judge you!" secrets.

Because it's always something like "People like something I don't. I am an intelligent person with impeccable taste, so this makes no sense! Are they perhaps irredeemable perverts? Six lizards in a trenchcoat pretending to be a fan? It's incomprehensible that a decent human would have different tastes from me!"

[(Anonymous)]

Abuse survivor here.

I like it because I can observe and dissect dynamics at a safe distance without real people getting hurt, and cope with my own abuse that way.

[(Anonymous)]

As an abuse survivor, and as someone who dated a (non-abusive) psychopath for several years, I find Hannigram to be incredibly interesting and "shippable" because of my personal experience.

My abuser convinced me I had all sorts of mental issues, to the point where I developed serious anxiety and panic attacks, hallucinations from sleep deprivation, etc. They were also my only port in the storm and one of the few people I've ever known who understood me and my mental disorder. That's why they were so effective at fucking me up. And even now, years later, I have no friends and no support network outside of that relationship. So, Will's side of things? I totally understand and find it fucking fascinating to see it laid out so clearly.

And Hannibal's side of things? My ex wasn't a serial killer, but his psychopathy effected basically every part of our relationship. It's really rare to see media touch on the emotions and affection of a psychopath. Most people assume there's no such thing, as if stunted empathy is the same as no empathy at all. But Hannibal actually explores that and I find it just fantastic.

[dancing_serpent]

Abuse survivor here. If Hannibal and Will were mother and daughter, then I'd probably have quite a few difficulties with it. But they aren't, and almost nothing of their relationship really touches what went down with my family. So it's fine for me, because I'm less emotionally involved and can watch and analyse from a distance.

[(Anonymous)]

For me it was a mix of things, being the most important and powerful the "I know you, I see you, we understand each other, we were alone until we met" and so on. That's something present in a lot of media and it always draw me. In this case we see characters encounting each other in a very dark background. Darkness within a human being is something I'm very attracted to, when is well explored and treated with responsibility.

The abuse itself is not something I'm particularly drawn to, and while enjoying the show, I also felt kind of sick because of it sometimes. But I think the appeal of the show, of the hannigram ship, is other thing -what I've said before. And for the abuse part, you see the abused person getting to a control, empowered place.

But never forget this. It's a love story. An unhealthy, toxic, dangerous, love story. People live for love and/or very intense emotions. Also, we have this lead character who has a lot of trouble with himself -something I can very much relate and a lot of people too. And he met this man who fucked him up but also kind of helped him get his shit together? Of course, this is not realistically acceptable. But is the wish of many people with similar troubles. Not to be fucked up by someone, but to reconcile with themselves, and why not, having someone emotionally close to them help them reconcile with themselves.