fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3245 ]

[ SECRET POST #3245 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3245 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 067 secrets from Secret Submission Post #464.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

loli and pedo shit, and occasionally the more extreme noncon stuff

not sorry, that shit is wrong

Careful with that edge.

I like that the Internet is at a point where you're calling me edgy for saying that pedophilia is wrong

Lmao

But 0/10

You need to know what words mean before you troll, nonny.

I don't think anon is a troll. They have an opinion that, for some reason, is unpopular.

I see your point but I'm unwilling to believe someone could be so stupid.

because fictional people =/= real people

why do people have this disconnect with this and not also fictional murder

Well, yeah, but you wouldn't write a fic where the bad guy is justified for killing people and later say "yeah,writing all those dead bodies made me so hot."

+100000000

How do people not see that the whole fictional murder/eroticized noncon comparison just does not work?

If people went around eroticizing murder? Like, if we were meant to watch Criminal Minds with a hand down our pants? That absolutely would be the grossest and most messed up fucking thing. Would it be as gross and horrible as someone actually doing that stuff? OF COURSE NOT, the two don't even compare. But just because they're not in the same vicinity doesn't mean only one can be harmful and the other must be a-okay.

Uh what, people do eroticize murder all the time. Think of all the cool sexy badass villains that kill people and are considered cool and attractive for being such badasses

I mean do you realize how many there are???

Obviously murder in criminal minds is not eroticized, and there are instances of fictional rape that are not eroticized, but good god so much of fandom loves characters that kill other characters, comparing criminal minds to hot murderers is about as off as comparing passion of the christ to eroticized fictional torture, the intent is different and that matters

Some popular fiction may portray villains as cool, and even sexy, but it almost always portrays their actions as, well, villainous and bad and in need of being stopped.

Popular fiction that portrays the actual killing/raping/torturing as hot deserves to be soundly criticized and shut down, IMO. But then, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything I've read/watched that treated those things like they were hot. Maybe The Vampire Diaries (which I do find reprehensible, FWIW). But even there, the narrative had this wonky attitude where the killing and torturing was...sort of treated like it was supposed to be hot, but at the same time treated like it was very very bad and the character doing those things had to be stopped.

there are instances of fictional rape that are not eroticized

And those are the ones I'm okay with. It's pretty simple really.

Okay, but why do you trust them not to murder anyone? They might not be getting hot and bothered, but fantasizing about graphically killing people has emotional gratification and is often cathartic for anger issues. What's preventing them from taking the next step? Especially considering serial killers fantasize about those sort of things? Sexual gratification isn't the only motivator for when people do awful things.

Could it be that most people have a disconnect between fantasy and reality and moral boundaries they'd never cross?

Nah.

Pretty sure you were replying to the anon above me, but, regarding people who write about violence: that's not fantasizing, that's imagining. They're related but not synonymous. Sure some people enjoy writing/reading violence because they find it emotionally gratifying for its own sake, but I think you'll find that far more often people write violence because it's part of the plot of their story.

Do you feel the same about violent video games, especially shooter games?

And what about other morally wrong irl kinks, like rape, vore, and abusive relationships? Should people feel ashamed for finding those things sexy in a fictional setting?

Additionally, it's worth noting most people into underage insert themselves as underage, not the abuser.

I guess my issue is that fantasy aspects can translate into real life, but for the most part fantasies are to explore aspects that people can't achieve in real life or the aspects they enjoy of it don't translate well into a real life setting.

Do you feel the same about violent video games, especially shooter games?

It's pretty case specific I think. It seems like the majority of complex, realism-based video games that involve killing people also tend to be in the context of sanctioned violence. The gamer will be a soldier or something. I still personally find the whole thing a little bit dodgy (if you're killing people and not some kind of critter), but it's not something I generally feel the need to publicly criticize. Unless the game incentivizes violence against civilian characters, in which case I do find that objectionable. If anything, war games and their ilk ought to punish a player for killing/harming civilians.

And if it's a game that incentivizes violence for violence's sake, like you're supposed to be a thug or a gangster or something, I find that objectionable as well. I don't like the idea of banning certain kinds of gaming content, because I'm really not a fan of censorship, so that's where criticism comes in. Criticism allows us to incrementally influence how certain narratives and concepts are viewed, without actually placing any restrictions on content.

But I don't game, as you can probably tell, so this is really all conjecture.

And what about other morally wrong irl kinks, like rape, vore, and abusive relationships? Should people feel ashamed for finding those things sexy in a fictional setting?

My comment from bellow mostly covers this: https://fandomsecrets.dreamwidth.org/1320417.html?thread=874553313#cmt874553313

As for vore, I have no idea. I've never read any vore so it's a bit hard to say.

As for whether people ought to feel ashamed for finding such things sexy...I don't really know whether shame comes directly into it or not. What it comes down to is that I wish people wouldn't post those sorts of fanworks publicly, to general boards and communities. And I wish critical (but civil) viewpoints on such content were treated as welcome, or at the very least were not attacked as they typically are. Because as I said above, criticism is often the flexible half measure that makes censorship unnecessary - not because it stops the objectionable content from being created, but because it doesn't allow the objectionable thing to become separated from its objectionability.

Also it was intended for you (and the anon below you.) I was the anon above you.

I'm the "+100000000" person. So one of the people you were replying to, but not the initial one. Lol. I'm really hopeless at lining up the comments if there are more than a couple of descending comments between them. Like I actually need to get out a ruler to figure it out.

But anyway, the person above me seems to have similar opinions to mine, so maybe they won't care if anyone thinks I'm them. :P

But why does it have to be tied to sex before it crosses a line? If somebody loves reading and writing really violent stuff, not because it's sexy but just because they like it, doesn't that say something unpleasant about them?

I'm not sure, perhaps sometimes it does. After reading American Psycho I didn't think very highly of Brett Easton Ellis, because the sheer extent and depravity of the violence in American Psycho was so intense and so profuse that I honestly felt it said something unpleasant about the author that he'd written it. Later I learned that he wrote all the torture/gore/murder scenes last, which made me reconsider my opinion on him a bit, because it implied that he knew his book required these scenes but that he wasn't just writing them because he wanted to.

So yeah, I suppose if someone loves reading/writing really gruesome, graphic violence just for its own sake, that does creepy me out some. But a big part of it is also how they characterize the violence. Is it about creating a victim and degrading and destroying them? Or is it larger-than-life super hero movies and WWE type stuff where the violence doesn't feel real? Or somewhere in between?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #3245 ]

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