[ SECRET POST #3420 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3420 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Banana Fish]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 051 secrets from Secret Submission Post #489.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

you're a moron if you think there's no correlation between positive portrayal of lgbt people in the media and society's views. positive gay characters aren't going to be the only factor in determining some sort of gay legislation, but they will allow people to feel comfortable in coming out (esp celebs and polticians who have influence) and help to create an environment in which lgbt people have more rights, protections, and people are less discriminatory toward them.

literally no one gives a fuck about aroace people outside of, like, tumblr lol. they're not facing mass harassment, discrimination, or even murder and imprisonment in less liberal countries (although it still happens in "liberal" countries as well).

seriously, aroace people make dumbass comments like this and then wonder why lgbt people are annoyed with them.

[(Anonymous)]

You're not being civil, which is the one stipulation I made when it comes to listening to arguments on this matter. However, because it's an important issue, I read past your insults and your general incivility.

You say aro/ace people aren't harassed or discriminated against, but we very much are. In fact, every aro/ace person I know on a peron-to-person basis has been sworn at, called names, and otherwise shamed on more than one occasion, due to their sexuality. In leading asexuality researcher Anthony Bogaert's book, Understanding Asexuality, he says asexuals appear to face easily as much harassment as LGB people do, though it does not always take exactly the same form as LGB harassment does.

Here's a good article where Bogeart addresses, among other things, community reactions towards asexuality: http://www.universityaffairs.ca/features/feature-article/asexuals-the-group-that-kinsey-forgot/

I'm not interested in playing the discrimination olympics, and I will cede the title for worse sustained discrimination and harassment to LGB people with zero argument. For numerous complex reasons I believe LGB people have it worse, I genuinely do. But I think the kind of discrimination and harassment aro/ace people face in such a massive volume is exactly the kind of discrimination and harassment media representation is so good at combating. It's discrimination and harassment born first and foremost out of ignorance and a lack of exposure.

This is a time when people feel it's totally okay to say extremely judgmental, dismissive, insensitive, and ignorant things like, "literally no one gives a fuck about aroace people," and make insulting generalizations about us, like, "aroace people make dumbass comments." Do you not see how - for lack of a better term - acephobic that is? And to argue that ace/aro people don't need more representation, when so many people think it's completely okay to insult, dismiss, disavow, and otherwise belittle ace/aro people? That's just...blind, close-minded, and wrong.

Should we make fighting against horrifying homophobic legislation a priority? Yes, a thousand times over. Making sure people don't get killed or denied their rights is far more important (if we must place them on a hierarchy of importance) than stopping the deluge of smaller discriminatory and harassing attitudes and behaviors that BOTH aro/ace and LGB people face on a day-to-day basis.

So if you want to argue that fictional representation can stop the ideology turning behind the political machinery turning behind that hateful legislation, and can prevent brutal hate crimes, then okay, I hear your argument. That should be a priority.

But for my money, I think what fictional media representation does best is shine a light on issues that otherwise sane, moderate individuals have little knowledge and experience of. It gets people, on the individual level, to be a little more comfortable and open-minded about things they simply had very little exposure to before. And that's something I think BOTH aro/ace and LGB people could do with a fair amount of.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god, fuck off. I'm aro/ace and not a single bad thing has ever happened to me because of it. We do not face harassment or discrimination (except for the kind that straight people can face too, like sexist harassment etc). I know you're desperate to be oppressed, but this is just embarrassing.

[(Anonymous)]

The fact is, only maybe one in five people who find out I'm ace respond badly, and probably only one in twenty get overly offensive about it, and and probably only one in fifty resort to vicious insults. But that still amounts to a couple of really bad experiences and a bunch of kind of crappy ones, along with the totally okay ones and the very positive ones.

That's the the reality of it.

I'm glad you've had only positive experiences as an ace/aro person, but I wish you would stop trying to use your positive experience to invalidate other ace/aro people who have been less fortunate. It's extremely insensitive and small-minded of you.

[(Anonymous)]

If only one in fifty people responds that negatively, and you seriously don't understand why you have it a million times better than any gay person does, I think you are the one who's insensitive and small-minded.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, as opposed to the maybe one in ten who just tell me I don't exist. Maybe half of which do it extremely rudely, but informing me I'm deluded, or implying I just have daddy issues or whatnot.

Honestly, I prefer it when they jump right to "frigid bitch." That way at least I know what I'm dealing with.

But you know, I've noticed that for the most part, you're not actually engaging with me. From the beginning I've done you the courtesy of addressing your points directly and civilly (if not fondly), despite your efforts to couch those points in insults. Yet you have not extended me the same courtesy. You're just spitting out ignorance - have been since the start.

So yeah, I think I've had my fill for the day.

[(Anonymous)]

Different anon, but you honest to God sound like you're twelve. People not being nice to you isn't actually discrimination.

Also, guess what? Plenty of non-ace women get called "frigid bitches" for deciding to be celibate for whatever reason! And told that they have daddy issues! But I guess admitting that you're mainly just facing misogyny would make you feel less special, lol.

[iggy]

"Bad things have never happened to me therefore they must not happen!!"

Ok.

[(Anonymous)]

you know what? i had a ginger friend who was made fun of a lot during school. however, being made fun of doesn't mean you face systematic discrimination. lots of people think ace people are weirdos for not wanting sex. i'm not denying that. however, people thinking you're kind of weird isn't the same thing as fearing for your life, fearing losing your job, and fearing being kicked out of your house which is a fear many lgbt kids face.

This is a time when people feel it's totally okay to say extremely judgmental, dismissive, insensitive, and ignorant things like, "literally no one gives a fuck about aroace people," and make insulting generalizations about us, like, "aroace people make dumbass comments." Do you not see how - for lack of a better term - acephobic that is? And to argue that ace/aro people don't need more representation, when so many people think it's completely okay to insult, dismiss, disavow, and otherwise belittle ace/aro people? That's just...blind, close-minded, and wrong.

I wasn't being dismissive and judgmental when I said that, even though I purposely phrased it in a mean way. I'm just stating what I see is a fact. No one gives a fuck about aroace people, and, as a lesbian, I would kill for that. I would kill to not have to hear about politicians complaining about "the homosexual" or hear people around me talking about "gross dykes."

People all around the world find same gender attraction disgusting to the point where they want to kill gay people, create legislation that denies their rights, and spread propaganda about us. This is a systematic problem. As for aroace people, people just find them kind of weird or prude-ish. If your worst problem is people thinking you're odd for not wanting to fuck people, then you really don't have it too bad.

In your first comment, you said that you didn't see why gay representation was more important than aroace representation. Of course I would be annoyed. Gay representation is IMMENSELY more important than aroace representation. If people start getting murdered for not wanting to have sex or relationships with people, then hit me up, I guess, but, until then, lgbt representation is way more important.

Would aroace representation be good? Sure. But there's no systematic "acephobia" that you speak of. The fact that I made a blanket statement about aroace people is comparable to me generalizing jocks. Kinda douchey? Sure. All that harmful? Nah, not really.

[(Anonymous)]

But there's no systematic "acephobia" that you speak of. The fact that I made a blanket statement about aroace people is comparable to me generalizing jocks. Kinda douchey? Sure. All that harmful? Nah, not really.

I don't have the energy to address your comment when this is where you're coming from. There will be no seeing eye to eye for us, if this is your viewpoint on aro/ace people and society. If your perspective were accurate, then I could discuss this with you and even agree with you. But it's not accurate - not for me, and not for the majority of other ace people I know in real life, or for many of the ace people I've known online. It's coming from a place of ignorance. I cannot possible know what your experience has been as a gay person. However, I respect your experience and do not feel the need to pass my own personal judgement on what it has or hasn't been. You do not give me that same respect. Therefore, we can't really have much to say to each other that won't go hopelessly amiss.