fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3426 ]

[ SECRET POST #3426 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3426 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Renaud (French singer)]

Notes:

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as is tradition

In my ideal world, sex/gender won't have any baggage attached - no one would associate any traits, behaviors, hobbies, stereotypes, etc. with men or women. People would just be people and genitals would just be a detail. Everyone would be treated the same.

In this world, I don't think gender identity would even be an issue (unless it was solely body dysmorphia).

Sounds like a good world to me anon

I like that, OP.

I remember watching an interesting thing that stuck with me on "River Monsters." The host was staying with Aboriginals in Australia for a while looking for a big fish, and he spent time with the native women fishing. It was something women always did - "women's work" so to speak - to catch fish for food. That stuck with me as something interesting, because in so many other cultures it's the opposite -- fishing is masculine and something the men mostly do.

(The women were much better at it than he was, but they accepted his help and were nice to him. They also seemed to think better of him for being willing to work at it, which I can totally dig. People are always more impressive if they're willing to try hard at something they don't already know how to do.) (Of course the host could fish well, but their traditional fishing method was new to him.)

Anyway that is clearly gender construct. Whether fishing is "masculine" or "feminine." I just thought that was interesting.

If there were NO labels on things, so that you weren't, er, swimming against the tide of gender stuff no matter what you chose to do, that would be pretty amazing. If people just did stuff they liked and wanted to try, instead of having to worry about how it came across, that woudl be so cool.

Edited 2016-05-22 00:50 (UTC)

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I would also like if this applied to all boundaries. Also, that program sounds cool.

It's a great show. :D The host, Jeremy Wade, looks for giant people-eating* fish in freshwater, then catches them if he can, and releases them. He loves fish so much, it's fun to watch. He also respects the local cultures. :)

*possibly people-eating; basically big enough to eat someone, maybe, according to legends & such - he's found some cool shit

Edited 2016-05-22 17:33 (UTC)

I'm tired of some nonbinary people insisting that if you don't fit male/female stereotypes you're automatically nonbinary.

Do NB people in particular say that? I just thought a lot of tumblrites said that kind of thing regardless

Piggybacking on that, I hate the "gender is a social construct". Sounds like people are trying to argue that gender is equal to the stereotypes we have of men and women, which pisses me off.

As someone who doesn't understand what gender could be other than a construct (since biological sex and gender are two different things) can you explain what else it is?

This is why I always get confused by things like genderqueer and non-binary. I mean, really I don't care what other people identify as, and everyone has the right to feel however they feel as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, but if gender 'traits' are typically because of stereotyping, does not following socially stereotypically gender traits make you agender/non-binary/etc?

Enh, I got two nonbinary sibs. One of them is femmy and likes pink and overalls and wearing zer hair in pigtails. The other is more bomber jackets and T-shirts. For one of them, gender is something they just wish would leave them the fuck alone; they don't understand why everyone cares so fucking much. For the other, ze just seems happiest with those pronouns; after a pronoun switch, ze was basically, "Okay, now I am happy."

I mean, I'm trans male but always feel like a total failure as being male, so you know. I've tried REALLY hard to be nonbinary but have totally failed at this endeavor. It seems like a weird kind of zen koan, the idea that maleness means literally NOTHING to me, but is still extremely important. (Plus I'm gay, so I'm SOLELY ATTRACTED to this meaningless descriptor! What the hell, brain!)

This. "Feminine" and "masculine" are designations that WE give to things. They don't mean that a particular behavior or trait is inherently male or female. A man who is nurturing and pacifistic is not somehow less male because of that, nor is a strong, aggressive woman any less female.

I think most people are some of one and some of the other, but if you're 90% male, you may not care about the rest. (And I've known some people who were 100% one gender.)

I don't get NB people at all, society recognizes only two genders. sorry but them's the breaks.

That is such a bad argument. Society used to only recognizea lot of other stuff too before people forced it to change its perspective.

I know this is a flippant thread, but I have a real one I've noticed.

Anyone ever notice how women get their own terms for things that are gender neutral?

We have Sexism and Misogyny, I mean we got Misandry eventually, but that was an uphill struggle to get as acknowledged.

We have Transphobia and transmisogyny (still no transmisandry)

We have Gay and Lesbian (a gay woman is either gay or lesbian, but a gay man is just gay.)

Reading tip for you: The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir.

Yes, but those terms (Except lesbian, maybe) are all terms coined and used BY women. When people try to get the male version recognised (Misandry) its women who object.

It doesn't matter who initiates the sexism, sexism is still sexist, and women are still not ever the default.

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-21 21:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-21 22:22 (UTC) - Expand

That's because transmisandry doesn't exist. I'm a trans guy. I know trans women. I see them fighting all sorts of transphobia and misogyny that specifically gets pinned to them as trans women.

Me? I might get misogyny from folks who don't see me as male... but that's specifically because they DON'T see me as male. I might face transphobia because I'm trans... but there's no specific bullshit I get for specifically being a trans GUY. There's only fallout from other stuff.

Funnily enough I've seen a number of trans women claim that transmisogyny doesn't exist, and that it's all just an extension of transphobia and societies hatred of men who "aren't useful" to society. That it's not misogyny because in the mind of the aggressor, it's the hatred isn't targeted at a woman. Which falls under transphobia, and their willingness to do violence to a man.

So you're not trans? Well LB_Lee is. Stop taking now.

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

lb_lee - 2016-05-21 22:35 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

lb_lee - 2016-05-21 22:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-21 22:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

lb_lee - 2016-05-21 23:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-21 23:22 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

lb_lee - 2016-05-21 23:53 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-22 00:08 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

lb_lee - 2016-05-22 00:10 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-22 00:33 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

lb_lee - 2016-05-22 02:27 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-21 23:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: gender/sexuality bullshit sub thread

(Anonymous) - 2016-05-22 00:10 (UTC) - Expand

I haven't heard the gay woman thing as much. It seemed more that the term 'gay' got applied to men and then diversified and became gender neutral, because man was seen as the default.

Also I've seen the term 'male lesbian' around, courtesy of Eddie Izzard. One or two of my friends IDed that way for a bit.

I've also curious why you make these threads here in a fandom group, rather than a more gender-focused one?

This is what I thought about "lesbian" too. It definitely isn't a special term meant to elevate gay women.

Misandry is only "accepted" by men who won't accept their own privilege and resent any suggestion that the world is the way it is, jsyk.

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