[ SECRET POST #3468 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3468 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 51 secrets from Secret Submission Post #496.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

So my mother has this parenting philosophy that’s related to the idea of getting kids onto a “schedule”. She says that making anyone eat, sleep or go the bathroom is unconscionable, because these are all acts that should be a pleasure, and to force them on someone is, in her words, “rape”.

Don’t get me wrong, I totally agree with my mother’s philosophy. I hated being in houses where people insisted I clean my plate even if I wasn’t hungry, and I was never, thankfully, subjected to sitting on a toilet for several hours waiting for something to happen, nor was I ever left alone to sleep with the lights off if I wasn’t tired. I’m pretty sure that this philosophy has contributed greatly to my being a well-adjusted adult.

It’s just her phrasing that I’m not sure about. Is it devaluing rape to use the term in a non-sexual context? Could it actually be helpful to compare being sexually assaulted to these situations, because more people can relate to the idea of having no control over whether or not they’ll have food forced on them? What do you think?

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[blitzwing]

I think your mom needs to be introduced to the term/concept of bodily integrity/autonomy, then she can refer to violations of bodily integrity/autonomy, without needing to incorrectly call them a term for a specific kind of violation that is not the kind of violation she's referring to.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. If anything, forcing people to do exactly as you say when you say it is more akin to the slavery kind of violation of autonomy than the sexual kind.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

*not saying it is slavery, but if a comparison must be made, it's closer than rape.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's an incorrect and unhelpful comparison, and I think it does diminish rape. But I don't think there's any productive way of arguing that point in that context so.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it is devaluing rape. It is nothing like rape. Unless those people are raping their kids to make them go to sleep.

Rape is non-consensual sex.

Also, kids actually need structure. I wouldn't make them sit on a toilet for hours, but making a child go and sit on a toilet on schedule is a good way to teach potty training.

You shouldn't force a kid to eat if they are crying, but sometimes you have to make kids eat stuff they don't want to. If not, some kids would live off of mac and cheese and skittles.

And it is perfectly fine to put a child to bed when they are not tired. If not, your child may stay up until 2 in the morning on a school night.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

~You shouldn't force a kid to eat if they are crying, but sometimes you have to make kids eat stuff they don't want to. If not, some kids would live off of mac and cheese and skittles.

I spent several months as a toddler eating nothing but chicken soup for every meal but breakfast. I grew out of it. I probably would have made a bigger deal out of it if I'd been forced to eat something else, instead of just tiring of chicken soup and moving on on my own.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but I have known kids who never grew out of it? I had a friend whose parent let them eat nothing but chicken nuggets/strips and pizza for YEARS.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

How'd the kids turn out?

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Okay. But chicken soup is skittles and ice cream.

At least chicken soup has most the vitamins you need to grow up. Also, you are a different breakfast so. Yeah.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that kids need a bit of pushing to eat healthy sometimes, it's simply a part of good parenting to know what to push and at what point pushing them to eat something they hate will simply not work.

I grew up having eaten most of what my mum served, and as I got older, I had the growing freedom to pick what I liked and what I didn't.

However if a child really hates something, they could end up doing what my mother did and refuse to eat beans three meals in a row, but I also think no modern parent would be a stubborn as my grandmother and serve the same pile of beans three meals in a row and only backing off when her mother said she should give up.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I am not a fan of that phrasing, though I understand the idea. As someone who was made to sit on the toilet for a long time waiting for something to happen as a child, yeah maybe that was not the best parenting move,but I would NEVER compare it to rape. I wouldn't even compare it to abuse (which I did experience as a child.)

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[silverr]

As a mom, I gotta disagree with your mom a little bit on a few points.

Super strict, absolutely inflexible schedules? Yeah, I don't like those either; however, no schedules at all -- do what you feel like, whenever -- isn't a great life skill if you're going to have to work or be responsible for others. (If you're lucky enough to be born into money, well then, be as narcissisticly indolent as you like!)

I dislike the use of rape in her context for the same reason it steams me when it's used within a gaming context to mean "defeat utterly." Too many connotations. FIND A NEW WORD.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, my mother is more a believer that people fall into natural schedules and you're better off letting your child take the lead. Correct the child only when they're doing something very bad and/or dangerous, don't sweat it if they would rather keep playing than go down for a nap at their usual time. Or don't make a fuss if they don't like the taste of peas. No one has to eat peas if they don't like them. Saves everyone a lot of time and tears.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

That will definitely not bite a parent in the ass when that child starts school.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[diet_poison]

There's a middle ground.

I grew out of naps sometime before I turned two. My mom was not happy about this. Naps are not just for the child; they are for the parents, who deserve a little bit of calm and sanity in the day. My mom made me go to my room for an hour. She didn't care if I slept; that was fighting a losing battle. I could play and entertain myself to my heart's content. But I had to go to my room and be quiet. Not unreasonable at all.

My mom also didn't make me eat mushrooms, which I hated (ironically, I like them now). Again, she picked her battles. I DID have to eat vegetables. If a kid absolutely despises peas? Fine, don't make them eat peas. If a kid refuses to eat ANY veggies at all? That is the foundation for a very unhealthy food lifestyle. Humans need vegetables. They will need to find some (including some green ones) that they can tolerate and get used to eating them. This is also, IMO, not reasonable.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Oh my god no.

No to every one of these points. That is a fucking terrible parenting philosophy. Don't give the kid any structure at all? let them always do as they like as long as it isn't dangerous? How in the world does she think that's a good idea?

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it devalues the term rape to use it in contexts that actually have nothing at all to do with sexual assault. No, it is not helpful to compare sexual assault to being told to clean your plate or sent to bed when you want to stay up. I think the entire premise is asinine, and is conflating being given boundaries with abuse in a way that both trivializes the genuinely horrible shit she's using as a comparison, and trivializes actually abusive behaviours by grouping them in with giving your four-year-old a bedtime.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[meredith44]

First of all, yes, that is devaluing rape as a term.

Second of all, I'm a preschool teacher, and most of the kids we have in school with no schedules/expectations/boundaries at home are little horrors. Like the child in my class who this week randomly decided to kick another child in the crotch for no reason other than she was there and he was bored. He does whatever he wants whenever he wants and grins while doing it. I am actually really worried for how he'll end up. I'm against forcing a child to sit on the toilet for extended periods of time or forcing them to clean their plate of foods they don't like, but there is a middle ground between that and letting the child determine everything.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[diet_poison]

wow. :( that sounds awful.

I don't think parents should be drill seargents but I absolutely think kids need discipline and boundaries and your example is a really good example why. Poor kid (and poor kids he terrorizes too. and also poor you having to deal with it).

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[meredith44]

The sad thing is that he isn't the only one. There are at least a couple of others in this current class, just to a lesser extent. And I generally have a few each year. It really makes me worry for how they'll end up, because there is only so much a school can do when home won't do it.

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[diet_poison]

Ok first of all who makes their kids pee on a schedule?? wtf? I don't pee on a schedule and I'm an adult (well, I pee when I wake up, but that's bc I haven't peed for 7+ hours). I pee when I need to pee and poo when I need to poo and the latter especially varies a lot.

Secondly I think there is value on having the family all eat together and encouraging kids to go to bed on time so they won't be super tired the next day (though forcing them to actually sleep if they're not tired is also an exercise in futility).

But thirdly I definitely agree with your objections. Those things are NOT equivalent to rape and I think the implication that they are is rather offensive indeed. :/

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[meredith44]

Ok first of all who makes their kids pee on a schedule?? wtf?
You obviously can't make kids pee on a schedule. It's their bodies, so they are in control. (And a lot of parents really screw up potty training by forgetting (or not caring about) that.) But I disagree that having a schedule is inherently bad. Like, for example, a lot of people ask that kids try to pee before nap and nighttime. And I think that is a perfectly reasonable request. As the child will be asleep and thus less likely to be in control of having to go to the bathroom. Or asking a child to try before leaving the house, and you are stuck in a car with no easy access to a bathroom. Plus, a lot of kids poop at about the same time every day. So if you are potty training a child, most experts recommend asking them to try at that time. (Again, you obviously can't force a child to go, but I see no harm in asking them to try.)

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[diet_poison]

Oh for sure, I'm not saying don't ask them to try! (My parents always told us to try before a car trip and I think that's a good habit for adults too. They probably also did at other times; I don't remember.) I just mean requiring them to actually produce urine on a schedule. Which according to this thread some people actually do. :/

Re: Phrasing! Trigger Warning, Talk of Rape

[(Anonymous)]

Judging by your posts, I would never send my kid to a daycare run by your mother, or you. And I feel bad for the teachers or other people who have to be temporarily in charge of kids who are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want and have absolutely no structure in their lives.

And then compares actual parenting to rape. wow.

Sure, don't force a kid to eat an entire plate if they aren't hungry - but damn straight do my kids need to eat vegetables and fruit, and other healthy foods. And if the are being picky, damn straight am I waiting them out. Fuck no am I "leaving the lights on" because they aren't tired. And obviously no one should force their kid to sit on the toilet for hours, but when I'm potty training, fuck yes do we try to go frequently, or do I encourage them to go before bed time or car trips. YES, as a parent, I am an authority, and there's a difference between being an authoritarian, overly controlling parent, and a parent who isn't afraid to set limits with their children.