[ SECRET POST #3476 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3476 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 44 secrets from Secret Submission Post #497.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry you can't tell the difference between things existing naturally in real life and things existing because someone chose to make them that way in fiction because they find them to be the most appealing option.

[herpymcderp]

Not sure that's entirely true? Most (good) authors aren't looking for the "appealing" option unless they're trying to make a point about an idealist society (see: soviet romanticism) or trying to work around a tricky historical period that's likely to get them crucified. Even then, that doesn't mean that the most appealing solution is to make everyone white- usually far from it.

A lot of the time those situations arise when people are trying to reflect real life demographics to make their points... For example, good luck trying to find a lot of poc representation in Amish Pennsylvania. If you're writing about that, you're probably writing specifically because there is a point to be made about that kind of cultish society.

[(Anonymous)]

Amish Pennsylvania isn't totally closed off. They could easily interact with people of different races.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that would not feel forced at all.

[herpymcderp]

Sure. And generally when they come into town for stuff they do, in my experience (some of my extended family are dairy farmers in PA). I'm just saying it's not going to be a very diverse novel if that's what you're choosing to concentrate on.

Similarly, ancient Norway isn't really going to provide a whole lot of opportunities.

There are a lot of real life instances where you just don't see the amount of poc characters those diversity mods are looking for.

This isn't even getting into the issues with writing poc characters if you're a person who doesn't have that much experience with a particular social group, and the problems of stereotype and accusations that can arise from that (e.g. JKR's really terrible attempt with the whole Native American magic thing recently). Not that that's an excuse to not try to educate yourself, but if it's between that and erring on the side of not making a damn fool of yourself, I'd advise any writer to maybe not make a damn fool of themselves.

[dethtoll]

Have you actually been to Amish country before? They do regularly interact with a variety of different people, for example when they come into town for something. (I saw a group at the zoo a few years ago, even had a nice conversation with one of them.) But those people DON'T LIVE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

If you're writing historical fiction about, for example, pre-colonial Africa... if there's white people in it, you're doing it wrong.

Or say there's a story set in Japan, which is 98% Japanese... what are you going to expect to find there? Here's a hint: PROBABLY NOT PUERTO RICANS.

Not every place is multicultural.

Now, when you start talking about fantasy settings, like Dragon Age the Witcher, then you might have a leg to stand on.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes.

Just seems natural to me that if you were writing a story on the Amish community a part of it would have to include how they deal with outsiders.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, that's simplifying things a bit. Africa has more genetic and almost as much linguistic diversity as the rest of the world combined. Sure if you're making it all about white people that's doing it wrong (never mind Roman Carthage and Egypt). But Africa absolutely is multicultural and multiethnic in ways that matter, whether you're talking about today or 500 years ago.

Japan was unified in the 16th century and was isolationist for a few hundred centuries. Before then there was significant cultural contact with China and Korea including importing at least four different waves of Buddhism, not all of which were peaceful adoptions.

Any significant multicultural work (such as Okorafor's Lagoon) is going to take into account how those issues are different from place to place rather than inserting "Puerto Ricans" everywhere.

[(Anonymous)]

I'll take "Missing the Fucking Point" for $300, Alex.

[(Anonymous)]

And how are the problems of an endogamous religious, cultural, and linguistic minority not multicultural?

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/welcome-to-the-country/article30820904/

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

And that is in the news because it's viewed as an unusual event - i.e. not common.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't doubt that the Amish community is overwhelmingly white, but it's funny you mention them, because the only documentary I ever watched about the Amish included a family which adopted a black child.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, someone's trying to read between the lines big time.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. I think people do talk about it the way that OP says, on occasion.

[(Anonymous)]

Interestingly, in the United States, all-white and nearly-all-white communities don't exist naturally. They appear to, and most of the people in them sincerely and innocently believe they just naturally came out that way, but it's not actually so. In every case that's been examined, there's a history of deliberate, often violent segregation that's generally been quietly forgotten about.

http://sundown.afro.illinois.edu/sundowntowns.php

I don't say this as a moral judgment on OP or on anyone here, but it's useful to understand the history involved. And again, this is about the U.S.; Oslo's pretty dang white for other reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

But what if OP isn't talking about the US specifically? People do that sometimes.

[(Anonymous)]

Then I guess that would fall under the acknowledgment I clearly made in the post you replied to without reading.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I live in a 99% white community in Australia (there's a few people from the Philippines and Uzbekistan). It's because the Aboriginal people were either murdered, died of disease (from 1880-1900, not that long ago) or were moved to "missions". Another town I lived in with similar settlement demographics had about 5% Aboriginal people because by chance settlement was less violent there.

[(Anonymous)]

It would be useful if people in the US made an effort to understand the history, culture and problems of other countries as well. Many people on the web are very quick to jump on people before properly considering that the person they're attacking maybe didn't mean to be a racist pile shit for not being diversive enough in their writing or art.