fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3546 ]

[ SECRET POST #3546 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3546 ⌋

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Oh for fuck's sake.

It is no more "male privilege" that I do the housework and cooking than it is "female privilege" that my husband does the dirty nasty sweaty jobs (such as below-freezing snow shoveling, 90-degree lawn mowing, other lawn care, oil changes, and general fixer-upper things around the house). It's a simple, logical division of labor. And we could switch those things if we wanted to and no one would say boo.

For the record, I do know how to do all the things my husband does (including oil changes for the cars), and he knows how to do all the things I do.

As I said above I don't think the laundry example is very serious - I mostly used it as an example because I think it's easy to see what's going on and simple.

Also, what I have in mind is less that women happen to be the one who does the laundry in a household, and more that in general men are less likely to know how to do it. That kind of thing. Obviously two people dividing up takes however they please is just whatever.

But any "simple" example is ridiculous because it completely ignores the complexity of an actual grownup relationship. If men "don't know how to do laundry" (or any other household chore), that's a failure of parenting, not society in general. My fifteen-year-old son knows how to do do laundry (and other household chores) because he's been taught, because I want him to be able function by himself when he leaves the house--and not be dependent on a woman.

Your entire premise is deeply flawed.

Parenting is a part of society. If there were a significant gender difference, on a society-wide statistical basis, in which kids get taught how to do laundry and which kids don't, that would be a society thing. Saying it's parenting doesn't mean it's not also part of society.

And, again, just to reiterate, very simplistic example here.

It's not necessarily "not knowing" how to do it :/

Personal anecdote:
When I was 12, my mum moved out. And from what I remember, I (afab) ended up effectively in charge of doing the laundry for the remaining family (dad and younger brother).
I'm fairly sure my brother knew how to do laundry at that point (he most definitely knows now), my dad probably did as well, and yet I was stuck with the bulk of it because I was "a girl".

My dad's still outsourcing his laundry to women as far as I know. (He mentioned doing just that in a phone call a few weeks ago, except with different words.) And he doesn't see anything wrong with that. :/
I'm glad my brother didn't pick up that attitude, although I suspect if things had gone differently he might have.

And apparently the women he's outsourcing his laundry to are fine with it. Otherwise they'd kick him and his dirty clothes to the curb, no?

AYRT
Except they have (probably not specifically because of the laundry thing, but the underlying attitude may have been a factor).
My mum left him. The lady he was dating after my mum apparently kicked him out (I don't know what happened there, specifically). Now he's dating someone else.

And I know 12-year-old me was pretty resentful about being dumped with the laundry, and unable to do anything about it because I was 12.

Well, then, I'd ask "how's that working for him," but I think we all know the answer to that question.

And now that you're a grownup, you never have to do anyone else's laundry ever again unless they're paying you. See how that works? I mean, my kid does the laundry, the dishes, the vacuuming, and cleans up after the animals, which is all part of him "contributing to the household." He probably resents it too. Too bad.

I don't really agree with OP's original male privilege thought experiment either, but why is your perfectly equitable ~post-feminist~ homelife supposed to be such a great rebuttal?
Either tell me you don't think sexism exists or show me data proving that it's over.

Because this whole notion of "privilege" as relates to household chores is such bullshit. Part of being a grownup is figuring out how to relate to the people you live with on an equitable level, and division of labor is part of that. If you don't like doing laundry (or whatever), then grow a spine and say so, and maybe your SO will say "Well, I don't particularly like mowing the lawn, so let's swap." Try having an adult conversation about it instead of whining about "privilege."

OP's "example" is far too simplistic and fails to take into consideration the give and take and weighing of responsibilities in a functioning household. Does sexism exist? Of course, though to a much, much smaller degree than my mom dealt with, and I think we're getting better all the time, to the point where 3rd wave feminism is flailing around trying to find something to be mad about and has latched onto things that are frankly ridiculous.

And maybe if we want "women's work" to stop being devalued, we should put the notion of "just a housewife" to bed for good and all, because that phrase is frankly horrible.

A friend had to deal with a guy who got hired at a fast food place who refused to do any of the cooking and cleaning because "That's women's work."

He got grabbed by the back of the neck, marched over to the full dish sink, and barked at that it WAS his job and he'd damn well do it.

He quit the next day. But no, it's totally just isolated incidents of bad parenting.

That's exactly what your example is, though. A single isolated anecdotal incident.

Agree or disagree: more men have that kind of attitude than women do.

And maybe it's time for women to stand up on our hind legs and start telling these guys to do their own shit, if it's that important. If you're a doormat, then people (male people and female people both) are going to walk all over you.

If you don't want to do his laundry, then don't. It is not that hard.

And if he doesn't want to shovel your walk or mow your yard, then I guess he doesn't have to do that either.

Not really. Since we're using anecdotal evidence here, I know quite a few women who flat out refuse to try and help with some heavy lifting around the house, not because they actually are too weak (I know a great example who is basically twice the size of her boyfriend and definitely not a delicate flower) but because "no, that's the man's job!".

Funny how something like that is never couched in the language of "privilege"...

NA

But it's not anecdotal, because it's the same old shit. It's bullshit to look at behaviour that devalues and stigmatizes "women's" work as below men, behaviour that's been studied and documented and fought against for hundreds of years, and claim it's just some weirdo and not actually about gender at all because we're all enlightened now. People don't change that quickly.

While we're being anecdotal, I work in an industry with traditionally male and female roles and I've seen women pull the same shit about "masculine" jobs they don't want to do. But people never say it outright, they just make it clear through their behaviour that the reason they should be given another task is they're just not "suited" to this one, look at what a terrrible job they're doing.

It is anecdotal. Anon basically wrote "I know someone who knew someone who did this once" - and this specific example is the very definition of anecdotal evidence, no matter how much you want to pretend that it's somehow not.
And LOL "hundreds of years". You may want to research that again. It's a very popular myth that womens' work was seen as somehow lesser when it absolutely wasn't in a lot of cases.

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