fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #527 ]

[ SECRET POST #527 ]

⌈ Secret Post #527 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 442 secrets from Secret Submission Post #076.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 (again) 5 6 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

She's an excellent writer- there is no way her characterizations are in any way mediocre. I've yet to see any work come even halfway close to what she accomplishes and this has been my fandom for years.

The character is open to different interpretations, of course, but I'd rather read her work than most published novels.

While I will agree she is a very good writer, I think her portrayals of most of the Organization members are really off. I know the characters are all pretty open to interpretation, but I really disagree with the liberties she takes. I think she plays up too much to what she knows the fandom likes instead of sticking more to canon, but...different strokes, I guess.

I wouldn't mind reading original works she's done, but I really dislike her Kingdom Hearts interpretations. They feel very pastede on yay.

There's also the issue of how she seems to think that her interpretation of Axel is the only correct interpretation of him - that she's the Axel expert, and no one can do him better.

As for work coming close to what she 'accomplishes', I've seen plenty, but I suppose it's different strokes for different folks in that she very much pumps out a particular kind of fic, and it's not really my general cup of tea. Her attitude doesn't help matters, so I guess that leaves me a little bias.

Greetings from the other mouse. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is mostly put off by her attitude. Her fics aren't really my taste, either, but it's her attitude that no one could possibly know Axel better than she does is what really ruins the experience for me personally. She's definitely a good writer, but her horse needs to be taken down a few pegs, and she needs to do a little more Axel-finding before she claims to be the leading authority on him, IMHO.

I agree. I'm also glad to find someone else who has the same view. It's rather daunting/saddening sometimes that these writers take such attitudes and then somehow gather a crowd of fangirls that faun and agree. I'm left wondering if I'm the only one thinking that maybe she might not deserve the amount of praise she receives. It's heartening to find that's not the case.

Wow. Anon-bashing. I hadn't realized Livejournal was turning into 4chan.

I want to play.

If you take issues with a person, or think they are presenting themselves badly, or have constructive criticism for them (emphasis on constructive, which this thread is not) that would help their work improve, you might try writing a review on their stories or, at the very least, sending them a private note or an IM instead of hiding behind the anonymity of a Livejournal reply post and taking the mickey out of them just because you can. Then everyone would benefit and profit from the opinion and experience you seem to think you have but have not the courage to express.

You know. Just a suggestion. Because right now you look like a total ass, not the least of the reasons being that you've made no effort to even remotely contact the person you seem to dislike so much and have made several assumptions based purely on your own speculations and the barest cursory observations.

But you know. That's just my "anonymous" opinion.

Are you serious? Grow up--that's what this whole community is about. Secrets, remember? It's supposed to be anonymous, and 90% of what's up here is bashing, so you're preaching to the wrong audience. If you can't deal with people getting anonymously complained about, GTFoff the internets.

Wait. A person who anonymously complains about people just told me to grow up?

Thanks for the lulz.

Firstly, no, LJ is not 4chan, but 4chan is one of my internet haunts, so I have no problem sticking to anon and any comments towards my 'courage' in this matter do not make any sense to me. It is your assumption that I even have an LJ in the first place, let alone that said LJ would be a persona that is in any way more true and honest than me just staying anon. Just a thought for you.

I wasn't bashing and didn't intend to. I also wasn't 'making assumptions based on speculations and the barest cursory observations' as her journal is unlocked and public. So is her ffnet profile. Any of this information is readily available for anyone to look at, and look at it I did. If you don't want someone to get an impression about you, it's usually a good idea to keep an eye on what your public persona looks like.

However, I was not taking the mickey out of her. If anything I feel that she is level headed and would meet my arguments quite rationally. I do not feel the same way about the mass of cohorts that gather around her - something you have demonstrated quite readily in your leap to defend. Taking the mickey would be to take one or multiple things about her and mock or belittle her for them. Where have I done that? I have stated that I do not agree with the attitude she seems to express, and that her writing is not my cup of tea.

You have made the assumption I dislike her (incorrect, I do not know her nor pass judgement), that I am hiding behind anonymous in order to mock her (also incorrect, I have done no such thing), and that I have not given her constructive cricticism to her face due to being a coward (perhaps slightly true - I am a terrible lurker in that I rarely leave reviews on fics I adore, let alone the ones I feel could do with some improvement). You have then let these assumptions lead to your opinion of me being a 'total ass', but in truth I think you have made more unfounded assumptions on me (based on two short anonymous comments) than I ever have regarding her (based on large amounts of public information.)

I'm not entirely sure what large amounts of public information out there. My LJ userinfo contains almost nothing, and my FFN profile contains a short blurb about writing and my manifesto on Axel and Roxas. Which, well... is my manifesto about Axel and Roxas because that's who I write about. Never said anyone had to conform to that; take a look at my favorites list there, it's full of all sorts of stuff about them in which they're nothing like what I describe.

As for my public LJ entries, I have a feeling that none of the people who are referencing my posts have known me for any length of time or followed my journal, because I don't think anyone who does know me would be able to take anything I say that seriously, and I don't think it's my responsibility to put a disclaimer at the top of every post for people who might happen to only see that post.

Thank you for being civil, in any case. I still wish people would take their problems with me to me, though. It's kind of silly complaining about me here.

I do not follow your journal, but have flicked through it several times after following fics you have posted to communities and then coming across your statements about Axel - I have a habit of these things when it comes to public journals. Curiosity killed the cat, I suppose.

Your 'manifesto' on Axel and Roxas on your ffnet profile got up my nose because of the way it was written - again with the definitive statements. If there had been one or two 'I think's in there, my view might be slightly different. But you have already stated that you do this deliberately to get a reaction out of people - but where others may react by arguing straight up with you, my reaction was to skulk away and stew. The curse of the lurker, I suppose. And while I do have a bad habit of reading through public journals, I do not have the same of looking through favourite lists on ffnet. Something I should redeem, maybe.

As for complaining about you here, well, that's always the way with fandomsecrets. I made one point and had intended really to leave it there, but felt it impolite to ignore the first anon, and then had to defend against another. These things snowball.

I know what you mean. I know that people skulk away, and I realize that my FFN profile probably comes off badly now that I look at it, though that's not how I meant it. If I meant it, after all, I wouldn't be reading or reviewing well the few fics that I do take the time to read, because they'd never live up by virtue of not being, well, mine. I should add a disclaimer to that, and I will.

But in my LJ I feel that I've made it more than clear that I'm looking for debate and always felt that that in itself should make it clear that I don't consider myself an authority - just someone who wants to talk about this very frivolous subject in a very in-depth way. I care a lot about the characters, and I know other people do, and if people don't want to do hardcore geeky balls-to-the-wall analytical discussion with me, that's fine; I just thought people knew that that was what I was after.

I definitely know that things snowball, which was why I probably shouldn't have responded in the first place. But I'm actually glad having gotten to talk to you, and I am interested in making myself more clear in the future, because I'll admit that I must not have presented myself clearly enough in the past. I suppose it comes from my old assumption that most of the people who are reading my journal are just people who have always been reading my journal and who know me well enough to know what I'm going for. ^^;

Re: 135

rarebirds - 2008-06-16 17:06 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 135

rex-dart.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 17:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 135

rarebirds - 2008-06-16 19:45 (UTC) - Expand

But really, it's not a problem, just an opinion, so why would they?

Whatever someone says here about your attitude or take on Axel isn't going to change that, so why bother? In any case, you found it anyways. :3

Re: 135

rex-dart.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 05:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: 135

signsonthewalls.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 05:54 (UTC) - Expand

Why? Because speaking from personal experience, this person you're defending certainly doesn't give constructive criticism in the form of reviews for fanfic which she has problems with. I never knew her from Adam until I found out through some roundabout method that she had an opinion about my writing, an opinion which I also had never heard of.

I honestly apologize if I've said something bad about your fanfic behind your back. I try not to do that but sometimes I do anyway, and I'm sorry for that. Nobody's perfect, particularly me, and I hope you can accept my apology.

It's the Internet, so... it happens. I didn't take much offense then, and I really don't want you to think I've been holding a vendetta against you all this time for some offhand comment or anything. I was just trying to point out to that one anon who seemed to have appointed herself your fandom spokesperson that, while this idea of honest and direct approach for the greater good of the fandom is very admirable, it would only work if it actually went both ways.

Re: different anon cutting in

rex-dart.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 05:53 (UTC) - Expand

In response to all of this, I'm sorry that my attitude comes off this way, I really am. My standards are basically that I like fics where people have thought about what they're writing and really put effort into it, which in a fandom the size of KH is exceedingly rare. And I don't like a lot of fics that are up to my standards just because there are things about them that are more of an Earl Gray than an orange pekoe, not because they're bad by any means. And I don't think other people's interpretations of Axel are necessarily bad - in fact, if the fic is good usually Axel's fine. Maybe not my Axel, but still a good Axel. But I love to talk about him, love it, and I want to hear what other people think about him, which is why I'm always starting debates. I enjoy arguing a lot, which anyone could see by, say, following my political posts, and that gets me into trouble sometimes.

The interpretations I'm always railing against are the ones that start off as mediocre characterizations in the first place and then spread through the fandom like they're carried by fleas on rats - same as bad, overused interps of every other character, same as high school AU. I admit that I'm sensitive about Axel, but I'm fully aware that he's not mine. If any of you are responding to the time that I made myself Grand High Arbiter of Axel months ago, please remember that that was tongue-in-cheek and a little self-effacing and that the whole point was that everyone who wanted to could pick something they wanted to lord over and get a little banner for their userinfo - a banner that I never even put in my own info.

I guess I probably can't change anyone's mind about me, and honestly I couldn't care less if you don't like my characterization or my stories or my writing - I didn't realize I was even well-known enough for people to care either way. But I think that if you actually took the time to talk to me and maybe point out to me personally that you think I'm a cunt, you might discover that I am not necessarily my ethos. So stop being chickenshit and bitch directly to me next time. If you're respectful, I'll be respectful too.

Actually, if you go back and re-read what was complained about, it was all justified with explanation and I'm pretty positive nobody said you were a cunt. You do realize this is an argument of opinion and nobody is right or wrong...right? For your information, I just saw the secret when the post was made and decided, "Wow, her fics must be really good to inspire someone like that." So I checked your LJ, which was plainly posted, looked up your work, and was...less than inspired. I never said you were a cunt or a terrible writer--no one did. In fact, I personally mentioned you were actually a good writer. All we said was your attitude was pretty arrogant and your characterizations weren't the shit you seemed to think they were, In Our Humble Opinion.

Your hypocrisy is showing. If you 'couldn't care less' then you wouldn't be snapping at a couple of anonymous complaints about your work. Your ability to be respectful looks pretty dubious from where I'm standing.

I said that I would be respectful in response to respectfulness, and not bringing your issues with me up with me and doing it anonymously in some comm is not quite what I'd consider respectful.

You seem to have completely misunderstood what I'm attempting to say. I get people telling me that they don't like this or that about my stories and people telling me that my stories don't do anything for them and when people leave me comments like that I respond to them just as I respond to every other comment I get, and I've never gotten hurt about it. I don't care if people don't like what I write, and I respond to the comments because I want people to know that I appreciate that they took the time to tell me what they think, no matter what they think.

What I'm saying is that I don't really think what I've come off as thinking. When I make a statement about Axel, it's not because I think that my statements are definitive. They're not, I'm not Nomura. I make my cases about him the way any academic would make a case about any fictional character or about anything at all - by stating my position like fact and then inviting criticism and debate, and I enjoy engaging people. And I've done the same on aspects of KH that are not, in fact, Axel. If people misinterpret that, well, all I can do is say that they're misunderstanding me and that I understand why and that that's still not the way I mean things.

But if you don't like the way I characterize I can only scratch my head at why you care this much. I don't like the way a lot of authors do things but I don't even remember the names of the authors whose stuff I don't enjoy. :/

I said that I would be respectful in response to respectfulness, and not bringing your issues with me up with me and doing it anonymously in some comm is not quite what I'd consider respectful. - Please see my reply above (http://community.livejournal.com/fandomsecrets/168833.html?thread=62062721#t62062721) in regards to how you interpret my (I cannot speak for the other anon) comments here in terms of 'respectfulness'.

As for caring 'this much', it is not that much effort to leave a comment or two on LJ. Does it really show that we care a great amount, or even a little one? I have spent more time defending myself than I have saying much regarding you.

Again, I cannot speak for the other anon, but I remembered you not for your name but the character you express - a large part of which was your attitude towards this 'definitive' Axel (something which left me with a bad taste in my mouth - always a hard thing to wash away), as well as a myriad of other things (the tattoo is especially memorable).

It's not that people care enough to leave a comment. It's that people care enough to remember who I am. Didn't know that.

The point I've been trying to make is that I don't really think there's a definitive Axel. Axel's not the same between stories that I write, and the stories that I recommend to people and the stories that you'll find that I read if you look at, say, my FFN favorites all have totally different Axels, and yet I still like them, and there are stories with different Axels that I've said that I wish that I'd written. I've made statements about his character and defended them and asked people to do the same and people have and I've enjoyed that and I don't think anyone's right or wrong - there is no right or wrong interpreting fiction, just positions that are more or less defensible. This is like reading an analysis of Hamlet and getting upset that someone thinks they know everything about Horatio. That's not really how it is, and that's the level I'm functioning on. Just wanted to point that out, as well as the fact that my actions should speak louder than my words since obviously one of them is more open to misinterpretation.

ETA: The last serious character analysis I wrote knocked every position on Iago except mine, which is that he was motivated by repressed sexual feelings for Othello. Which might give the impression that I think that I'm the definitive authority on Iago, but that would be silly as well. :3

Edited 2008-06-16 05:25 (UTC)

My least favorite part about being an English major, though, is that there are people have the eminent opinion. There are scholars out there who are held up to know everything about Horatio and, as some poor sap who disagrees, I look bad in class and I'd look worse trying to publish. Which is bullshit because you're exactly right. Nobody but Shakespeare actually knows the wrong or right of Horatio.

I think, seeing as you are Kind of a Big Deal (and whether or not you recognize that you are, trust me that I'm not just trying to flatter you when I say you are), people take that to mean that they can't have their own opinions. On the internet words always speak louder than actions. I think the fact that you didn't know you were that important (and therefore your opinion carried as much weight as it does) factors into how you phrase things.

I mean, people are far more likely to take Stephen Greenblatt's criticism as The One Truth than mine. And even if Greenblatt was amenable to debate, would the rest of us know through all his reviewers and professors and teachers who take is word as the Law of Shakespearean criticism?

That said, I don't know if I think your Axel is the real Axel. And I'd say you have a very consistent characterization of Axel. But it's a concept that comes from a love for the character and a devotion of time and energy and deep thought. And I respect that A LOT. Eh, whatever, I don't wanna sound like I'm sucking up when I'm just offering my $0.02.

... I really, really wanna see that character analysis.

Yeah, I'm just one of the 345 people who have you friended and from our few e-interactions you probably think I'm just a huge stalkery bitch (and I'm only confirming this belief, I'm sure) but... yeah, sorry you're getting wanked at/about.

Re: Interrupting Cow

rex-dart.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 07:43 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Interrupting Cow

intravenusann.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 08:06 (UTC) - Expand

[Logged in for courtesy sake, though I don't really know what it's going to do for anyone... Whatever gets collective rocks off, I guess.]

You seem pretty definitive on the whole, "that's Axel done right" being just the starting point that's led to this amusing little corner of drama.

I won't involve myself too deeply in this--a friend provided the link and I've been reading on a whim since I was bored, but my overall interpretation of this exchange? You sound whiny because people on the internet are doing what people on the internet DO and they're getting a good laugh out of it. People bitch, and if you really don't care then just ignore it. Real writers shouldn't need to justify themselves to the collectively anonymous masses.

I'm not hurt or upset. And I don't mind that people don't like my writing, although I think it'd be kinda nice if they left reviews with feedback so that I could, you know, take their thoughts into consideration. But it's not like I really expect that, or that anyone has to. It'd just be nice.

Whether or not I feel like justifying myself has nothing to do with my writing, really; these are two entirely separate issues. I don't feel a need to; I just thought I would. I don't really like being misinterpreted, so I'll point out what I meant, and if people don't listen I'm not going to cry about it.

Sad truth is that, even if that's the case? Point doesn't really come across on the internet, no matter how hard you try.

Re: Drama llama is LAWL

rex-dart.livejournal.com - 2008-06-16 05:56 (UTC) - Expand

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #527 ]

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different anon cutting in

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Other Mouse

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Interrupting Cow

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Drama llama is LAWL

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