fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3980 ]

[ SECRET POST #3980 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3980 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[The Big Family Cooking Showdown]

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03.

[Michael Fassbender/Alicia Vikander]

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04.

[Team Fourstar/Dragon Ball Z Abridged]

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05.

[Nurarihyon no Mago]

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06.

[Candice Swanepoel (Victoria's Secret)]

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07.

(Stranger Things, season 2)

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08.

[Christian Bale]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 40 secrets from Secret Submission Post #570.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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No, I don't believe that creative works should be free by default, any more than any other form of labor should be. If a particular artist is willing to give away their work for free, that's fine, that's awesome, but they aren't morally obligated to do so, and their choosing to do so does not mean that consumers have a right to take other artists' work for free - or to continue taking that artist's work for free should they choose to move to paid work in the future. Consumers who believe they deserve an artist's work for free because they want it and don't feel like paying for it and who refuse to use legitimate channels to obtain that work for free because it's inconvenient/they might have to wait are absolutely being entitled; consumers who don't pay but do go through legitimate channels are fine.

Unless we're talking about a post-scarcity environment where money is abolished and everyone creates everything for the sheer joy of creating and sharing it, then artists should always have the option to demand pay for their work, just like anyone else. If you don't want to pay them, you don't get to partake of their work.

It's not morally permissable for someone to acquire an artist's work for free without their consent, any more than it's morally permissable for someone to acquire the fruits of anyone else's labor for free without that person's consent. It's reasonable to make exceptions for something that's a necessity for survival - but movies, video games, and books aren't necessary for survival. Ever.

Even if a book/movie/video game/etc keeps someone from killing themselves? Or brings them out of a terrible depression?

Yes, because it doesn't actually work that way. Try therapy.

Yep, someone who has to resort to illegal downloads can TOTALLY afford to pay a professional therapist. Excuse me while I wonder where your grasp on reality is.

Not in 'Murrica.

Where, incidentally, you still have a hell of a lot of free crisis resources. Staffed by people who are actually trained in assisting someone in the middle of a mental health crisis, which is an actually effective way to manage the situation, unlike pretending you can just apply fiction to the problem.

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-27 04:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-27 13:23 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-29 14:21 (UTC) - Expand

By this logic, somebody with a mental illness should be allowed access to any art without paying for it, because it MIGHT be the one thing that saves them.

Following this logic, should people with mental illnesses be able to just walk out of a store with make-up since it might boost their mood? What about a new outfit? Should mentally ill people just be allowed to go to a restaurant and not pay for food because they're trying to cure their depression by eating out?

As someone who is mentally ill, I would never dream of dining and dashing. So why should I have the right to steal from someone who worked hard to write a novel I enjoyed.

People's mental health is their own responsibility to deal with. I would never imagine that Tolkien didn't deserve to be paid for his work because LotR got me through adolescence.

Yeah. It's still wrong to take something that the creator wasn't giving away. I'm not saying that if you pirated something you deserve to go to jail forever; I've both pirated stuff and bootlegged performances--as in, I've illicitly recorded theatre and concerts--but I was being selfish every time, although I justify it to myself because if there was a way to purchase a legal recording of the shows I attended, I would. But if I'd been caught I couldn't have justified it by saying listening to my crappy recordings helped my depression.

Now, if you were starving and stole food, or freezing and stole a blanket, I think that'd be different, because at that point you wouldn't really care if the blanket was orange plaid or blue stripes, or if the sandwich was tuna or chicken salad, just that you were full and warm. But entertainment doesn't work that way; you wouldn't be content with a beat-up volume 27 of Reader's Digest Condensed Books instead of an illegal download of the new Thor movie.

I don't think people should neccessarily go to jail for pirating stuff, but I think people like the OP of yesterday's secret, who pirate rather than go to their local library that they still have access to, are being selfish. They aren't out of other options, the library still exists, but they're freezing and hungry and arguing about the color of their blanket and the meat in their sandwich.

I didn't say anything to yesterday's secret maker except that they should check out their library's ebook options, because I didn't want to kick someone who was already down. But I think pirating stuff when there's a way to legally get their hands on it for free if they'd just wait a bit is shitty. Especially with books, because enough missed sales can fuck with an individual author enough that they might have to not write as much so they can concentrate on earning money to buy food and clothes and stuff.

Do you not underatand that not every random bit of entertainment available for free is going to help someone in the same way that a specific one meaningful and relatable to THEM will? Jeez. Talk about thick.

How do they know that specific thing is the only thing that will help them if they don't already have it?

Except they wouldn’t know that specific thing would slap a bandaid on their depression until they’d already stolen it. There are lots of creators who actually risk starving or freezing if no one buys their work because most everyone pirates it instead. Why do their needs not count, or their depression when their work they hoped to make a living from was stolen instead?

Tough shit. Still doesn't give them the right to steal from someone else.

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-28 09:43 (UTC) - Expand

you wouldn't be content with a beat-up volume 27 of Reader's Digest Condensed Books instead of an illegal download of the new Thor movie.

You realize you're basically saying "you can have three rice crackers instead of a decent, filling meal," though? Sure, I'd take the crackers - but you can't call someone "selfish" or "shitty" for shoplifting a can of soup because your crackers didn't cut it and they were still starving.

What if a creator needs money to buy something to lift them out of depression? What if they need food? What if they're disabled and can't work, or live in an area with no jobs? Do they still not need to be paid?

Didn't you get the memo? Real artists are supposed to ~S~U~F~F~E~R~ for their art.

/sarcasm

Picture this:

A broke af woman who's been screwed over by life finds strength and empowerment through a fictional woman she discovers and deeply relates to. The show she watches isn't even on Netflix, isn't at her local library, and there's no way she could afford a DVD box set.

An LGBT youth from a small town with a shitty library and a worse bookstore discovers a wealth of books about "people like them" actually do exist - and some of them are even available for free. Which is awesome, because said youth has very little money. Anyone from ANY hardship and walk of life discovers something that gives them hope and joy, through fiction.

You're still saying that these people are evil for taking what scraps they can to get them through? It's alright to say "pay for it or go to a library" if you just want any old bit of entertainment, but for people in marginalized communities, sometimes there just AREN'T other feasible options.

Picture this -- your broke as fuck imaginary people who live near the only library in the country with no interlibrary loan system decide to shoplift the books and movies that they want from Barnes and Noble. That should be fine by you, right? After all, the only thing that makes them happy is stealing.

I'm actually pro-shoplifting, if the person needs it bad enough. Honestly, I think in most cases if you're smart enough to get away with it, you deserve the booty.

Cool. I’m glad you’re ok with getting store employees fired so you can have free stuff. Have you ever considered being treated for your sociopathy?

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-27 23:29 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-27 23:30 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-27 23:32 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-27 23:36 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Should creative endeavours ever be bought or sold?

(Anonymous) - 2017-11-28 09:13 (UTC) - Expand

You can throw as much as a pity party as you like but no, nobody is entitled to free entertainment. No matter how marginalised. Of course they can illegally acquire that entertainment and no, they aren't "evil" for that, but pretending that it's anything but an illegal act that would get them rightfully punished if they got caught is plain ridiculous.

No-one's calling anyone evil, ffs. You can have compassion for someone and still encourage a sense of decency and responsibility. You know what the opposite is? Enabling.

And how about you picture this. A disabled woman with depression and anxiety finds meaning and independence by utilising her creative skills to make a living. To feel like an independent, productive member of society and to find both joy and practicality in her creations is one of the only reasons she can get out of bed in the morning. Unfortunately, she's not successful or well known enough that she can take a hit of piracy without serious danger of her livelihood being in jeopardy.

See, I can make up a scenario that makes you look like a selfish asshole too. Except, did I mention? I know this woman. She's my sister in law. Gets a bit harder to dismiss authors as robots when you know exactly who you're screwing over, doesn't it?

There are other shows about other fictional women that are available on Netflix, or are in syndication.

There are other books about LGBT people that are legitimately available for free, or for very little money.

Your fictional people could partake of that legitimate free/low cost entertainment instead of stealing shit. It exists. It's available. If they have the resources to pirate shit, they have the resources to stream or download legitimate sources.

I'm gay, mentally ill, and poor as fuck. I still pay for my entertainment, or get it for free through sources the creators have agreed to that adds to their consumption numbers, because I actually want more fiction that makes me feel represented and empowered to be produced, and I actually realize that creators shouldn't be expected to work for free because I want their shit and I don't feel like paying for it.

Get off your high horse. Some of us don't have the luxury of paying for jack shit except food and bills, because ALL of our money goes towards helping our recently widowed mother you know, not starve and freeze. While I skip meals myself, to cut costs. Excuse me if I pirate the odd show, for a bit of relief. But congrats, you're a "better gay person" than me. Do you want applause?

Poor baby martyr, constantly conveniently ignoring the fact that there's loads of shit available for free because that might interfere with the excuses you're making for theft.

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