[ SECRET POST #549 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #549 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[is this fandom?]


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Notes:

Going to be doing some advertising until the 15th!

livelongnmarry [LJ comm] - fandom auction type place! For a good cause.
Juxtapose Fantasy [website, art/fic] - Yaoi/slash fans - have you visited JuxtaposeFantasy yet?

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 298 secrets from Secret Submission Post #079.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: 129

[biocaam.livejournal.com]

How often is it that girls can relate to a male lead beyond basic emotions?

Re: 129

[coloa.livejournal.com]

I almost always can? \(o_O)/

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Um, I can. I'm a girl. I don't care for most girl characters. *shrug*

Re: 129

[baka-tenshi.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I've always been able to relate to female characters more in personality, goals, etc.

Maybe I'm a freak of nature. D:

Re: 129

[biocaam.livejournal.com]

No, you're not, although I usually relate more to situations more than characters.

AND OH SHI--
IT'S MERU

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe you're a special snowflake.

Re: 129

[vivalanaomi.livejournal.com]

*Looks up from Vinland Saga*

I'm sorry what?

Re: 129

[obnoxdwfanbrat.livejournal.com]

Well, generally it seems like women relate to male characters better than men to female ones, probably due to differences in socialization/culturation/indoctrination between men and women. It's been well-researched that in young adult literature, girls will read about male and female protagonists but boys are less likely to read a book about a female protagonist. However, After a while a great many of us females feel left out, ignored, and forgotten because yes, we get that you consider male to be the "fundamental" of humanity, and that women are the other, but can't we have a basic human plot of our own?

The question is, why won't boys read stuff with female leads. If you look at it, what female-lead series are popular with boys? The only thing I can think of off the top of my head are Tomb Raider and Metroid, both video games featuring leads with a tendency to kick butt (basically considered a male activity in our society, even though in situations with no social consequences males and females are about equally physically violent). I think this has to do with the fact that male is "default" and female is "other" In our society (when in fact, biologically, the reverse is true, but let's not go there, that doesn't have any sort of value in this argument). Our little boys are socialized to be afraid of being perceived as female or womanish. They often have crises of identity if they perceive themselves that way. But it's perfectly socailly acceptable for a girl to be a "tomboy" and almost all girls go through a tomboyish phase or engage in tomboyish behaviors. Boys are trained not to identify with female characters unless the only thing about those characters that is female is their appearance. It takes highly masculinized female characters to overcome this, generally.

WHY is this? Because western society, and much of eastern society, is a heteronormative patriarchy that uses sexism and gender roles as a form of economic and social control. Undermine the heteronormative patriarchy, maybe we'll get some nice female leads. Until then, expect shit like this.

Re: 129

[vivalanaomi.livejournal.com]

*Slow, building clap*

Re: 129

[triestine.livejournal.com]

what female-lead series are popular with boys

I think comics aren't that bad in this respect; see Modesty Blaise for example, or Wonder Woman, or the female heroines of the Marvel universe: all as badass as it gets. Which leads me to

Boys are trained not to identify with female characters unless the only thing about those characters that is female is their appearance.

I hadn't thought about this before, but... damn.

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

IAWTC so hard. The fact that women are thought of and treated as extensions of/relations to men rather than as people in their own right, and the "default human" is considered to be male, is basically the essence of sexism. Everything else stems from that.

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

Completely wrong. The main character himself is only a medium to tel the story. He is just an extension of the main narrative purpose. Female characters are no different. You're just biased.

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Thanks for correcting me, anon! Now I can see just how wrong I was for thinking that there is any sexism in fiction!

I...really don't even see exactly what you're responding to with this declaration of "completely wrong." I never said that female characters were somehow inherently different than male characters. They're both...fictional people created to tell a story. I just commented on the different ways they're often treated.

Re: 129

[paperclipchains.livejournal.com]

He is just an extension of the main narrative purpose. Female characters are no different.

Pretty ridiculous claim to make about stories that are centred on human growth (i.e. of the main character)

Re: 129

[(Anonymous)]

So you're saying that the default is... Female?

Re: 129

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

...what.

No, I'm saying that the default human is human, and male and female are both variations on that, each no more valid than the other.

Re: 129

[obnoxdwfanbrat.livejournal.com]

Technically, without the intervention of certain genes and hormones that cause the development of male genital and neurological features, embryos develop into female humans. However, this is completely irrelevent to the topic at hand.

Society presents male as "default" and female as "other." Truth is that neither is "default" in anything but the most basic sense, kind of like how albinism/lack of pigment is the default without the intervention of a color-causing genes/melanin. The default person ought to be just a person of random gender, but the way society and its fictional sseries are constructed present male as the default, as the nexus of understanding, and female as sort of a cultural special interest group that males need not identify with. Consider how women are expected to identify with male figures of particular cultural salience in absence of a comparable female figure, for example.

Re: 129

[haro.livejournal.com]

It's not bullshit. Females have little trouble relating to a male lead, but males (at least boys) often have trouble with female leads.

That being said, exist to be a damsel in distress? I'm trying to think of a Pixar female that plays the role of damsel in distress and failing completely. Jessie, Atta, Dory, Elastigirl, Collette, Sally, Eve, etc. None of them. In all honesty, in many cases the female is really the stronger character.

It's certainly better than Disney. If the female is a lead she's a damsel in distress and just wants a guy. If she's not the lead... well same. Even their strong women are usually reduced to DiD in the end. There are some exceptions (hello Mulan and Pocahontas), but still.

Re: 129

[militarypenguin.livejournal.com]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Re: 129

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

Amen.

Re: 129

[triestine.livejournal.com]

Females have little trouble relating to a male lead, but males (at least boys) often have trouble with female leads.

I'm afraid this is true, however it's a learned (in)ability, not something that's natural. Perpetuating the omission of strong or leading female characters is what contributes to the problem.

Re: 129

[haro.livejournal.com]

But keeping on topic, Pixar does not omit strong female characters at all from it's stories so ummm...?