[ SECRET POST #4064 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4064 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 42 secrets from Secret Submission Post #582.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

She's a protagonist though. She is what the saga is about and she's not a Skywalker. The only Skywalker to continue the story is Kylo, who might have to die to be redeemed and even if not, I want an actually good Skywalker, not a grey one. I'm okay with Rey being a Kenobi. I'm okay with her being connected to one of the original Skywalker friends like Lando or reincarnated Anakin. Her being a clone of Palpatine would be interesting. But I want whatever she is to be connected to the Skywalkers because the saga films are their stories.

I honestly didn't care about her being nobody until everyone made such a big deal about how unique and right it is, which I don't agree with at all so now I want her to be connected to someone from the OT or PT or new EU.

[(Anonymous)]

But I want whatever she is to be connected to the Skywalkers because the saga films are their stories.

But... that's only true because you decided it is.

I mean, if that's how you feel about it, that's how you feel about it, but that's not, like, a fact. Apart from anything else, just because the new Star Wars movies are, in fact, Star Wars movies.

[(Anonymous)]

It is how I feel about it and it's what I want. It's what I've seen in the previous six movies and now that there are stand-alone movies and announced trilogy movies that are clearly not about the Skyalkers, it's clear the saga movies are now intended to be the Skywalker trilogy (+Rey Random for no good reason).

You can argue that you see things differently but you're not changing my mind on that. The saga films should always be about the Skywalkers and the other characters set up by the OT and PT (by Lucas' original visions). There are going to be other movies to explore other people. Rey Random doesn't fit the narrative. If they'd done anything interesting with the idea, I could go with it. Instead, they keep shoving it at me as so needed and perfect and so much better than being invested in the Skywalkers who started the damn franchise.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not saying you need to change your mind. I just kind of wish you'd stop talking about these things like they were transcendent moral truths, rather than your personal preference for the films. Like, in and of itself, there isn't any necessary reason why the films have to be about the Skywalkers or fit into the narrative that you would prefer.

Also, to be honest, it seems like a lot of this is you're realllllly salty about the fandom

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously, I'm salty about the fandom. I said as much twice already. The reason I feel this way is because of fandom (and the creators who are also pushing this narrative without doing anything worthwhile in the actual movie to back it up). I'm also perfectly within my rights to not like something and be salty about it.

I also said, "I want the saga movies to be about the Skywalkers and their friends. I hope they retcon it in the next movie." That's not making a transcendent moral truth. You're the one who's reading too much into what I'm saying. People are allowed to dislike your movie.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah I was just surprised by how much saltiness there was. But sure, you're within your rights.

And I was more talking about some of the stuff later in the thread when you started talking about how the saga films are the Skywalker's stories, and things that aren't about the Skywalkers don't fit into the narrative and should be limited to side films, and the Saga films should always be about the Skywalkers. More that stuff rather than anything in the first comment.

[(Anonymous)]

You're reaching way too hard. I haven't said anything about any transcendent moral truths. I think the saga films should be and were about the Skywalkers. Everything I've read from Disney says they think the same. Their new announcements about the RJ trilogy and the GOT producers movies are specifically said to not be the Skywalker Saga. Rey shouldn't be a random. It's not the point of the saga films. You can make that point in a stand alone but I don't think it needs to be made at all. None of the PT Jedi were anything special. No one should get a pat on the back for making her a random.

[(Anonymous)]

But, if Disney agrees with you, why did they make Rey not a Skywalker?

[(Anonymous)]

RJ made her not a Skywalker because the whole movie was about subverting expectations, not about what's best for the franchise or even the sequel trilogy and its characters. And Disney's ultimate end for the trilogy is to kill off the OT characters to make way for their own. They are only making it a Skywalker trilogy because of what came before but they're all too happy to get rid of the old. Doesn't mean it's right. Just that they recognize that's what the trilogy should be about.

Obviously, my opinions, since you seem to have trouble with that.

[(Anonymous)]

So basically, if I understand, Disney simultaneously wants to get rid of the OT Skywalker & Friends Crew, but also know that the Star Wars saga films have to be about the Skywalkers, so they're making a trilogy of films just to get rid of them? And so Rian Johnson made Rey a non-Skywalker just to subvert expectations within TLJ as a film, and Disney went along with it because it allows them to get closer to their goal of replacing Skywalker characters with their own characters?

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Um, Ben Solo?

[(Anonymous)]

I answered this in my second response.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

It just seems weird to say it's not a Skywalker movie when about half of the ensemble are Skywalkers.

[(Anonymous)]

But they're all incidental. It's not about Luke or Leia or Han or Lando or Chewie or any OT people so it's definitely not their movie. And I believe that Rey is going to kill Kylo so he gets taken out. That doesn't make it his trilogy either.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Three of the most important characters in the script are not "incidental."

A key character dies in the end, so it's not about them. Unlike, Oedipus, the Gospels, Romeo and Juliet, or Hamlet.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think they're important though. And Luke's death felt really shoehorned in. He didn't feel like a key character. It's clearly about Rey, Finn, and Poe.

[cbrachyrhynchos]

Well, no point in debating feeeeeeeels I guess.

e_e

[raspberryrain]

But her role in the saga is such that continuing the story of Anakin and Leia and Luke still runs through her, because of her interactions with Luke and Kylo. Making her genetically related to someone adds nothing useful to that. She's already part of the saga. There's no need to give her a genetic tie to put her in a story she's already in.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

She doesn't have to be genetically related. If she was adopted the way Leia is an Organa, I'd be cool with that. I think it would be a cop-out to have them adopt her now though. I want her to be part of this family because this family is the one I am invested in as a long-time fan.

And I disagree with your first sentence. I don't see her as continuing the story of the Skywalkers at all. The whole point of Rey Random is that she's doing her own story. She's rejected Luke as a teacher. Anakin is nothing to her. Sadly, now that Carrie Fisher is gone, there's not much in that direction either, and I would argue Leia's legacy is in Poe. The Skywalkers are being brushed away. Their legacy is Kylo Ren, which sucks. I want to see more of this crazy family. Rey is not connected to them. If she kills Kylo, then she wipes out the whole family to make way for her story now, and it's got nothing to do with the characters that were in the OT or PT. If that's the case, she should have her own movie and not have it look like it was supposed to be connected to the Skywalkers.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

She's rejected Luke as a teacher

I really don't think that this is true. I definitely think that Rey is still walking in Luke's shoes and is definitely part of his legacy. I wouldn't say that Luke rejected Yoda as a teacher, either.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

I disagree. Luke didn't reject Obi-Wan or Yoda. We see in TLJ that he still listens to Yoda. In RoTJ, he still sought guidance from Yoda and Obi-Wan, and clearly still valued their advice even if he didn't agree with it.

But I definitely felt that Rey rejected what Luke was doing when she went after Kylo and stole the books. And that's part of the narrative around Rey Random that I've encountered - that she's going to make a new Order that has nothing to do with the Jedi and the old ways. She's moved beyond Luke. She's going to fix everything he did wrong.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

First of all, if flying off the handle, leaving your mentor behind, and putting yourself into a dangerous situation because you believe that a Dark Side force user can still be saved isn't following in Luke skywalker's legacy, I don't know what is.

Second: I do think that Rey is rejecting part of the legacy of the Jedi Order, especially the institutional part of it. I don't think she's necessarily wrong to do so - we know, after all, that the prequel-era Jedi Order was ridiculously flawed. I do think that she's trying to move beyond Luke and fix what he did wrong. I think Luke also tried to move beyond his predecessors and fix what they did wrong. I think that's generally what people are supposed to do with the past: take what's been done, and build on it, and try and do better. That doesn't mean that you're rejecting the past. That also doesn't mean that Rey is going to succeed - any more than Luke did - because, like Luke, she's still a human being.

But, again: I don't think any of that amounts to rejecting Luke or his legacy. It's trying to move forward with and from that legacy.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

For your first point, two characters behaving in similar fashion in one specific instance doesn't connect them. She isn't flying off the handle because she learned that from Luke, and I certainly didn't see her doing it in a way that was enough like him to make me think she was acting like him.

Your second point, I also don't think she's wrong to reject something of the past but the way the movie went about it made it feel that she was rejecting Luke himself. She's not learning anything form him except that he failed. She didn't learn anything about his successes. Whatever she does from here on, it's on her. She has nothing to connect her to Luke. She's going to learn how to be a Jedi from a book.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

I certainly didn't see her doing it in a way that was enough like him to make me think she was acting like him.

It seemed to me like almost everything that she did in the entire movie was extremely Luke-like and Luke-ish, so I guess agree to disagree there.

Your second point, I also don't think she's wrong to reject something of the past but the way the movie went about it made it feel that she was rejecting Luke himself. She's not learning anything form him except that he failed. She didn't learn anything about his successes. Whatever she does from here on, it's on her. She has nothing to connect her to Luke. She's going to learn how to be a Jedi from a book.

I don't agree that she has to learn how to be a Jedi from a book. She still has her experience of Luke and the lessons from him and his example. And I think what's really important there is the fact that she had the chance to know him as a person. Rather than relying on this abstract legend of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi, she was able to see who he was and get a sense of his faults and flaws and also his strengths and wisdom. Even if they didn't necessarily see eye to eye. I just don't agree that she's not learning anything from him except that he failed. It's no more true for Rey than it was for Luke and Obi-Wan.

Re: e_e

[(Anonymous)]

For your second, that's my point. She knew him as a person and rejected him.