[ SECRET POST #4217 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4217 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #603.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

She was butch, not trans.

[(Anonymous)]

lol wut

[(Anonymous)]

Nayrt
People seem to be divided on this though? The person isn't around to ask them what they would identify as from today's point of view so /shrug

[(Anonymous)]

Many butch women of that time said they were male as it was easier to live as couple. She also worked in a male dominated industry.

Regardless, anyone running sex massage parlours isn't the type of person who should be getting a film dedicated to them.

[(Anonymous)]

Many butch women of that time said they were male as it was easier to live as couple. She also worked in a male dominated industry.

This isn't really evidence that she herself wasn't trans

Regardless, anyone running sex massage parlours isn't the type of person who should be getting a film dedicated to them.

How so?

[(Anonymous)]

People are revising history to make anyone non gender conforming to be trans. Some people who knew her refereed to her as she in her obituary. This article from 2014 quotes her attorney:

“She was a very good businesswoman, but she just had a different lifestyle. You’re talking about a person who was very complex. She was very tough. A lot of fun. She drank a lot. She partied a lot. She could recite poetry endlessly. Irish poetry.”

https://newsinteractive.post-gazette.com/thedigs/2014/02/17/the-complex-and-tough-dante-tex-gill/

And sex parlours are exploitative, like the whole sex industry. We shouldn't be glorifying pimps.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know if that's necessarily something that settles the question, to me? I would find it more compelling if it was like... something that Gill themself, rather than their attorney? I don't know that I'd necessarily trust an attorney with that. Or at the very least, a more involved look at the biographical data.

And sex parlours are exploitative, like the whole sex industry. We shouldn't be glorifying pimps.

I don't see how it's intrinsically exploitative (at least, not any more intrinsically exploitative than any other kind of labor), although I accept that there are massive abuses in the industry as it actually exists, and if you have specific connections between Gill and abuses, that's a different thing.

[(Anonymous)]

There is no way to fully protect against STDs. A lot of women who work in the sex industry are forced into it by a partner or for financial reasons. These places often are not regulated but the women are too afraid of losing their job to speak out. Many men who pay for sex treat women roughly. The inside of a human body should not be a workplace.

[(Anonymous)]

There is no way to fully protect against STDs. A lot of women who work in the sex industry are forced into it by a partner or for financial reasons. These places often are not regulated but the women are too afraid of losing their job to speak out. Many men who pay for sex treat women roughly.

I agree that these are issues, but I don't think any of them is an intrinsic issue - they're abuses that should be curbed.

The inside of a human body should not be a workplace.

Why?

[(Anonymous)]

Exploitation is too widespread to "curb":

- 1 in 7 prostitutes in Europe are victims of trafficking.
- 70-90% were forced in prostitution by criminal groups.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2014/493040/IPOL-FEMM_ET(2014)493040_EN.pdf

As for the human body, in sex work you can't fully protect against STDs (some causing pain, infertility, death), women can have vaginal tears and bruised cervices, men and women have have anal tears. Women can die or have long-term effects from surrogate pregnancy. Women selling eggs can lose one or both ovaries.

The vast majority of the time it's exploiting people who have nothing else give and so are forced to take these risks, if they are not forced into it.

[(Anonymous)]

If you really have to ask "why" to that statement you have lost all credibility in caring about human welfare or personhood. Just so we're clear.

[sabotabby]

I have unfortunate news for you about waged labour.

[(Anonymous)]

Waged labour works under government regulations about safety. These do not exist in prostitution. There is a huge difference between working a regular job out of financial need and working in prostitution out of financial need.

[(Anonymous)]

"The inside of a human body should not be a workplace"
Dentists and surgeons say hi.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a little dubious, would you mind expanding on that

[(Anonymous)]

She identified as a she. Her family and close friends called her a she.friends. She neved identified as a male.

[(Anonymous)]

I think she identified as male for work and to make it easier to live with her female partner (like many lesbians of that time). I definitely agree that she was not trans though.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay... that just makes this controversy even weirder. I thought trans people were upset a non-trans person was playing a trans person...

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of gender non-conforming people from history are being rebranded as trans, as well as different cultural practices (e.g. two spirit). They can't be trans as trans didn't even exist as a concept for most of them.

[(Anonymous)]

That's interesting, tell me more

[(Anonymous)]

Here are some examples:
https://4thwavenow.com/2016/10/31/transing-the-dead-the-erasure-of-gender-defiant-role-models-from-history/

[(Anonymous)]

That site seems extremely TERFy, so I'm a little concerned that their sources and arguments might be biased by that.

[(Anonymous)]

That doesn't surprise me, what we both the rigid gender roles tumblr support and the obsession with labeling people regardless of their own identity (unless those people are themselves, of course. Everyone should respect their labels, but they can label other people because they know better).

[(Anonymous)]

Do you have sources for this?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's a dick move to act like they were definitely trans when... What actually indicates that's the case? Sure, we can't go back in time and ask, but why does that mean we need to assume they WERE trans? Frankly it makes this whole controversy pretty ridiculous, even if the casting choice would've been kinda bad regardless.