[ SECRET POST #4337 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4337 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 45 secrets from Secret Submission Post #621.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Okay but does it matter if it was from before he met her or some time while he knew her? Either way he developed those prejudices, and by the time he said that to her he still had them. It might actually be worse to me if he started thinking of her that way after they became friends :/

[(Anonymous)]

It matters in the sense that when you know where it stems from, you can cut it off in other people.

I don't find it worse, considering all that had happened between them at that point. They'd begun drifting, she dated a guy who relentlessly bullied him (which yeah, can feel like a massive betrayal when said bully "got better" but never once fucking apologized to you, because then you wonder if they really even feel sorry or changed at all or are just putting up a front because they want in your friend's pants), all the while the only people offering him any kind of acceptance being a bad crowd. Which, I will reiterate what I said to the anon above: that's what real world gangs do. They're predatory. They prey on vulnerable youth. Like people who are bullied. People who have shit home lives. ETC.

It sucks he became such an awful person. It doesn't change that he does, but fandom has a distinct tendency to decide that if you do bad things you were always bad and evil and that you couldn't have possibly been a victim of circumstances that led you down a really bad road (which deserves a little sympathy but not anything that excuses the actions, because they could have been better).

[(Anonymous)]

She only started dating the guy who bullied him AFTER she ended her friendship with him (and only because said guy DID change; Lily wasn't stupid or weak-willed by anyone's description of her ever). Snape was ALREADY hanging out with those people WHILE Lily was still friends with him. She said so. That was the crux of their fight. She gave him lots of chances and encouragement to knock it off (while calling James an insufferable toerag, so that is not a factor at all at this point).

[philstar22]

All of this. If nothing else, Lily dating James is evidence that James changed. Lily hated James when he was bullying. There is no way she would have gone out with him if he hadn't actually changed, and there is certainly no way she'd have married him.

[(Anonymous)]

(ayrt) But as we've learned from previous Snape Stan arguments, it's more important to hyperbolize and assume James never ever changed one bit than to defend Snape's canonically awful adult behavior.

[(Anonymous)]

nyart

While Snape IS one of my favourites... NGL all the Stans made me go from disliking James to neutral to kinda like him a bit.

[(Anonymous)]

I wish more people would remember that at least a year passes between Lily ending her friendship with Snape (end of fifth year) and starting to date James (sometime in seventh year). But hey, gotta claim Lily left/ignored Nice Guy Snape for Popular Jock James! /s

[(Anonymous)]

I mean, I think the issue is that this Lily incident was the start of his path to join a genocidal hate based terrorist group, so that makes it difficult to excuse earlier, smaller acts of magical racism. Also, Snape can have been a little bit fantasy racist before meeting Lily and also not have been a bad person. Lots of kids are kind of racist, even if it’s not malicious, because they’re still developing (Ron I think was even kind of shown to be a tiny bit fantasy racist?), and that can often be made malicious by outside forces, like you say with Snape falling in with a bad crowd. Idk, both can be true? But anyway I think the point people generally are trying to make though isn’t about Snape’s eternal badness, but more pointing out that his fantasy racist beliefs were something he really felt, which is often downplayed.

[(Anonymous)]

"when said bully "got better" but never once fucking apologized to you, because then you wonder if they really even feel sorry or changed at all or are just putting up a front because they want in your friend's pants"

Why would James have bothered apologizing to the guy who literally joined the magical KKK though? Like, assuming he changed and had regrets about his past behavior, the guy you're saying he should say sorry to was part of a gang advocating for the deaths of nonmagical people. Why even bother?

(Also why do Snape-defenders have such little respect for Lily Evans?)

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe James shouldn't have terrorized and sexually assaulted Snape in the first place.

[(Anonymous)]

There we fucking go

there it is

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah I get it sexual assault can’t happen to guys.

[(Anonymous)]

You think being sexually assaulted gives you license to be a neonazi? Because 80% of women have been sexually assaulted (probably a lot more than that if we get to count juvie bs like pantsing) and let me tell you... it’s still not an excuse to go kill people who don’t meet your standards of ethnic purity.

[(Anonymous)]

Imagine a world where every victim of Friday Flip-up Day took it as a license to burn down a synagogue. This is where we’re at with Snape apologia.

[(Anonymous)]

“Sexual assault makes you become a racist neonazi” is a supremely bad take

[philstar22]

Seriously. Why do people bring this up every single time Snape comes up. Like, if he were sexually assaulted, does that suddenly justify everything he ever did forever and ever? That's a pretty messed-up worldview.

[philstar22]

even if you are entirely right, that does nothing whatsoever to justify Snape joining the Death Eaters or to justify him bullying kids as an adult.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, bullying is bad, nobody disagrees with that, but joining the magical Nazis and sticking with them through everything (until they target one single person you feel bad about) is much worse. Snape only changed sides in the last year of Voldemort's reign of terror. What a victim.

[(Anonymous)]

There are people here who think sexual assault is nbd

[(Anonymous)]

No one in this thread is saying that - it just has nothing to do with Snape’s racism and involvement in genocide.

[(Anonymous)]

That isn't what gangs do, you realize that right? Preying on weak-willed individuals is more of a cult thing.

[(Anonymous)]

That is literally what gangs do. I've literally researched this for multiple school projects. They start recruiting when they're young and vulnerable or otherwise desperate. Cults do it, too, because it's a method that works.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, well, if your school project said so.

Did your extensive research also talk about the gangs that recruit through mutual hatred of perceived foes? Look up modern-day white supremacy recruitment tactics, for a very appropriate comparison.

[(Anonymous)]

Well I hope you failed those poorly researched projects then.
To put it simply, gangs are a lower, to middle level tier of organized crime. They don't have the resources, or wherewithal to go looking in grade schools for poor, underprivileged, influential children. Because to be part of a gang means you were born within it, or grew up to be a part of it... There isn't some kind of YMCA group to join to become a gangster.
They don't recruit young bullied people because that is a risk more than a reward. They aren't about to risk themselves for someone who'd break the minute the police show up... You join a gang by knowing the gang, they don't come and find you.

[(Anonymous)]

Others have already mentioned most of what I wanted to say, so I'll just point out that Lily didn't start to date James until their seventh year. That's more than a year after the end of her friendship with Snape in fifth year.