fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #4397 ]

[ SECRET POST #4397 ]

⌈ Secret Post #4397 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[She-Ra: The Princesses of Power]

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02.

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03.

[Mystic Messenger]

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04. [SPOILERS for Steven Universe episode "Escapism"]

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05. [WARNING for discussion of abuse]

[Utawarerumono]

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06. [WARNING for discussion of animal abuse]

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07. [WARNING for discussion of rape]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #629.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I wish I could be supportive of rape fantasies, but I've seen so many men on 4chan, youtube, reddit, etc. say "ALL women secretly want to be raped, it's their number 1 fantasy, they're all submissive fuckholes, they just need some good dicking to be put in their place, etc." and it just. I can't stand it. It's not fair that women should be shamed for having fantasies and it's not fair that we're all lumped together like this when I have absolutely no desire to be submissive nor do I have rape fantasies. It's just all a mess for me.

So you can't support women's fantasies because of men's view on them?

That is all kinds of fucked up.

"It's not fair that women should be shamed for having fantasies and it's not fair that we're all lumped together like this when I have absolutely no desire to be submissive nor do I have rape fantasies. It's just all a mess for me."

I said it right there that I don't think it's fair that women get shamed for their fantasies because of men being shit. But I'm lumped into that mindset men have of us by virtue of being female and it puts me at risk. I put the blame entirely on men, though, not on the women who have rape fantasies. I have a shit ton of issues with men tbh.

Right? It's like saying you can't support gay marriage because homophobes and assholes say shitty things about the "gay agenda".

You are legitimately dumb. OP is clearly blaming men.

Yep. And yet somehow OP still "can't support" the people who aren't to blame. You don't find that weird and irrational at all?

DA. That's...that's not an apt comparison at all.

Like I said in my actual comment, it's not fair that women get shamed for their rape fantasies, but those fantasies do put other women like myself at risk. It's 100% the fault of men and I hate that we live in a society where women saying "oh, I have fantasies about rape, but they're literally just fantasies and I would never want to be raped in real life" gets interpreted as "LOL all women want to be raped, they secretly crave it" by a lot of men. I think I have every right to be terrified when I see men espouse this shit on an uncomfortably large scale.

DA - I don't entirely agree with what you're saying, but I do absolutely understand why you feel the way you do, and can empathize.

And I don't believe anyone's suggested you don't have every right to be terrified of men who espouse such repugnant beliefs, did they? They (and I) are merely pointing out how strange it is that while you place the lion's share of the blame on men, you still reserve a bit of blame for rape fantasies, as if having them is somehow wrong and unsupportable.

Men's views on this (scarily common, not just on the above asshole-magnet sites) are 100 times more fucked up, but hey,you carry on supporting that external and internalised misogyny.

Yeah, this is a frustrating aspect of it for me too. But I do try to place the blame where it belongs, which is on the men who will seize on anything to support their misogyny. Because the thing is, I don't think these men are actually confused. I don't think they truly believe women want to be raped. (I don't think they care what women want or don't want.) I think it's just what they say to justify their own views.

The only thing I take issue with is when women, in real life, want to play "no means yes" with a guy, sexually, without actually discussing it with him first. Like, they want to say they're not interested and say no, and they want him to push and "prove he wants them" by not taking no for an answer, because they find that hot? I don't know how common this kind of behavior even is, tbh, but if someone gets off on that dynamic then it's so, so important that they discuss it with their partner first. Not just for their own safety, but to avoid perpetuating any genuine confusion about the nature of consent.

I was with you for this:

Yeah, this is a frustrating aspect of it for me too. But I do try to place the blame where it belongs, which is on the men who will seize on anything to support their misogyny. Because the thing is, I don't think these men are actually confused. I don't think they truly believe women want to be raped. (I don't think they care what women want or don't want.) I think it's just what they say to justify their own views.

But you lost me here:

The only thing I take issue with is when women, in real life, want to play "no means yes" with a guy, sexually, without actually discussing it with him first. Like, they want to say they're not interested and say no, and they want him to push and "prove he wants them" by not taking no for an answer, because they find that hot?

Because I have a hard time believing this is a widespread thing to the point where it's a real problem and not just one or two women with a screw loose.

... you've genuinely never heard of people playing coy? Because it's a fairly common thing that happens a lot.

Yes, I've heard of it. I'm just skeptical it happens to the degree you're describing, to the extent where it's a serious problem.

Like I said in my comment, I have no idea how common this behavior actually is. I've definitely had women in real life tell me they do this kind of thing. And there seems to be a lot of people out there who claim a lot of women do this sort of thing. But I have no idea how common it actually is in reality. Which is why I made a point of saying that in my comment.

If it is incredibly uncommon, that's certainly a relief. But to those people, rare though they may be, my opinion is unchanged: you need to talk about it with your partner first. If you don't, it's dangerous for you, and it may genuinely confuse your sexual partners - especially if they're inexperienced and not overly educated about matters of consent in the first place.

Of course there are a lot of people out there who claim that women commonly say no but mean yes. That's how they justify raping those women.

"No means yes" is pretty damn uncommon outside of negotiated play. What's a lot more common is genuine ambivalence - I want to but I shouldn't, I kinda want to but X and Y factors mean I also kinda don't want to - which should be taken as a no, or outright "no" being ignored because some asshole wants to get off.

Me: If people do X that's dangerous for everyone.
You: Hardly anybody does X.
Me: Ok, but even so, the people who do do X need to handle it differently because it's dangerous for everyone.
You: Hardly anybody does X. Most people do Y.
Me: No shit. Not really my point though.

You have a bit of an issue with talking past people. It's weird.

People playing coy are not the problem. Rapists are the problem.

But those are men trying to justify their own shitty behavior. A rape fantasy is still a fantasy, and unless you're role-playing where actual consent is still in play 100%, it's shitty men being shitty men.

It looks like everyone else got the important points, so I'm just gonna say that there are a lot of boards on Reddit, you should stop going to the shitty incel red pill ones.

Also "youtube comments" and "4chan"? Come on, Anon, you know better than to put raw sewage in your brain, that's where the brain-eating ameobas live.

I'll give you 4chan, but youtube encompasses hundreds of thousands of men and a lot of their comments are nightmarish. These people exist, don't just handwave them away as a silly minority of trolls. Just look at the recent Gilette ad, there are a fuck ton of these shitty, awful men out there.

THIS. All the threadders here gaily handwaving this shit away is testament to their sheltered lives IMO. Rape culture is real, it needs challenging and crushing and that starts with understanding how horrifically widespread it really is.

Not All Men? No. But far too bloody many of 'em.

Let's not pretend that women and their opinions aren't a huge part of rape culture as well, hm?

Anon says they don't support women's rape fantasies, you jump on them with it being men's fault, anon says men are to blame, you jump on them with women being responsible for rape culture too. Can't win with you fucking people.

I completely agree, which is why I'm not against the fantasies, but I'm against *calling* them rape fantasies. Because they're not. If you're controlling the fantasy, even though it appears that the fantasy is of rape, it's not rape - you "told" the character to rape you, therefore he's not raping you.

I would call a "triumph over adversity" fantasy instead. That's what you really want - a scenario where you're tested and you come out on top.

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[ SECRET POST #4397 ]

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