[ SECRET POST #4406 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4406 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #631.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

There's a whole lot to dig into here, and I don't feel like it. But one thing I do want to say is--

It's not women's job to incentivize men to be decent people.

Even if "bad boys" got laid more (which I'm not saying they do, but even if they did), men are not animals living on instinct, with no choice but to behave in the way that allows them to procreate the most effectively. Being sapient means you get to choose how you behave. And being civilized means choosing not to be a shithead because you think it might get your dick sucked a few more times.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but when you see the majority of girls getting soaked over asshole characters, they're obviously going to emulate that to get a woman. They are going to, and actively do, internalize that douchebag male characters are the key to getting into a woman's pants. Hence why "negging" or the mindset that all women want douchebags is even a thing. Y'all have no one to blame but yourselves for this shit, yet you don't take any responsibility.

Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

"Women don't take any responsibility!" rants the anon who insists that men aren't responsible for their own shitty behavior.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Can't exactly blame them for behaving that way when women prove time and time again that they like it and it's their ideal. Fucking idiot.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, you can blame someone and hold them accountable for their actions like the adult they are, whether or not their victim makes an "easy target".

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Speaking of fucking idiots...

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I mean, I think it's wrong to deny that women who worship guys like Kylo or the 50 Shades of Gray dude or DDlg or all the other disgusting power imbalance, abuse fetishes out there don't bring harm among women as a whole. Men do see this stuff and internalize it and use it as justification for their shitty behaviour. So, yeah, both sides are to blame.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Women having fantasies about fictional assholes do not harm women as a whole.

Those men who are behaving shittily? They would have behaved shittily regardless. Men behaving shittily predates 50 Shades of Gray. It predates Star Wars. It predates kink scenes. It predates porn written for women. It predates every. Single. Fucking. Excuse. That misogynistic dick pimples drag out so they can whine that it's not their fault they're worthless wastes of skin, it's the fault of those yucky women having bad fantasies.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

+10000000

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Women having fantasies about fictional assholes do not harm women as a whole.

Yes, they do. Men touting out 50 Shades' insane popularity among women as proof that we all want to get raped and abused is fucking terrifying and it happens at an alarming rate online. Stop pretending like these men are a minority or that some of the onus isn't on the women who get off on this shit. If we say one thing ("I want a good man") and then do another ("I say as I shlick to this fanfic of Kylo raping Rey who I self insert as") we are only helping to perpetuate this notion that we all want abusive assholes. Stop pretending like this doesn't hurt women.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Men touting out 50 Shades' insane popularity among women as proof that we all want to get raped and abused is fucking terrifying and it happens at an alarming rate online.

But no one is responsible for their decision to do so but themselves.

They're incorrect in the conclusions that they're drawing, so how can you blame anyone but themselves for drawing those conclusions?

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

They're incorrect in the conclusions that they're drawing

Are they incorrect though? Look at how many women love being thots and littles. It's like the majority of us DO want to be dehumanized deep down (not me though, the very idea is sickening to me). Can you really not look deeper into WHY women love fictional assholes and monsters?

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, yes, you're a good special virginal unicorn and the rest of us are dirty whores.

Grow the fuck up.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Abusers self-selecting for damaged women and women buying into the narrative that assholes can be redeemed by the love of a good woman in no way justifies or lessens the responsibility abusers bear for being abusive.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Wanting to be dominated in a sexual context does not mean that you want to be dehumanized in a more general sense. So to the extent that they're drawing general moral conclusions from sexual fantasies, yes, they are categorically incorrect.

I do think it's interesting to ask why women love fictional assholes and monsters. But I don't think that the answer to that question is going to answer broad moral questions about The Nature Of Women, let alone justify abuse of women.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

No, they don't. Rapists and abusers harm women. They would still harm women if 50 Shades didn't exist, because they harmed women before it existed. They insisted the women they harmed enjoyed it - or deserved it - before 50 Shades existed. The blame for that is not on women, it's on the men who rape and abuse them, and grasp at literally any fucking straw they can find to justify their behaviour.

Stop pretending that men's violence and bullshit self-justification is in any way the fault of women. You are harming women by excusing the assholes.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

It took forever for feminism or female empowerment to take root and there are a shit ton of women today denouncing it and wanting to go back to "the good old days" where they stayed in the kitchen and married any man who's a go getter that won't take no for an answer. Women have probably been encouraging men to treat them like shit since the beginning of time by interpreting it as love and romantic or finding it hot long before they started writing bodice rippers. The fact that they still do this- that is, find abusive men arousing-, like it's embedded in their DNA, is pretty telling.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

It's so fucking stupid to pretend a victim's (perceived) enjoyment or desire for rape or abuse has any effect on whether or not a victimizer enjoys abusing someone. I don't like raping people, I wouldn't like raping or abusing people even if they fantasized about it because I DON'T LIKE RAPING AND ABUSING PEOPLE jfc.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

This. Thank you.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Grown men are not children and women are not their parents. Nor are grown men schnauzers and women their trainers. Women are not compelled to give men cookies (or sexual attention) for being decent human beings.

As humans, we behave decently because we're decent, civilized people. If we don't behave decently, it's on us to face the social and legal consequences of our actions.

Men who behave badly simply use "women always go for bad boys" as a bullshit way of justifying their bad behavior.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT and

As humans, we behave decently because we're decent, civilized people. If we don't behave decently, it's on us to face the social and legal consequences of our actions.

I agree with this but there's at least some dissonance between this argument and the fact of women idolizing and wanting to fuck characters who behave in ways that are the opposite of decent and civilized. It in no way justifies anyone's immoral and repugnant actions. But there is something complicated there.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

It's not complicated.

Those characters are fictional. They will never, ever hurt the women fantasizing about them because they are imaginary. Their horrible behavior is only titillating because it is completely under the control of the person having the fantasy, because they are the one with the power to turn off the tv, close the book, or daydream about something else. It's a little spike of adrenaline in a safe situation.

Claiming that there's dissonance between fantasies some people have and the rules humans are expected to live by is like saying there's dissonance between some people enjoying watching NASCAR and society expecting people to obey the rules of the road.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

Those characters are fictional. They will never, ever hurt the women fantasizing about them because they are imaginary. Their horrible behavior is only titillating because it is completely under the control of the person having the fantasy, because they are the one with the power to turn off the tv, close the book, or daydream about something else. It's a little spike of adrenaline in a safe situation.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that! But I think there's something at least a little complicated or dissonant about the fact that, on the one hand, we supposedly want to be decent people, while on the other hand, fantasies that are utterly divorced from that being so widespread and prevalent.

Re: Lololol!

[(Anonymous)]

I could point the finger at so many people for my shitty behavior but I don't because I'm not a fucking idiot child.

[(Anonymous)]

protip: rape fantasies and a taste for douchebag fictional characters don't cause men to be arseholes, evidence suggests it's in fact a method to cope with the fact men are arseholes.

You either fictionalise, sexualise and in general nerf the sheer horror of existence in the current climate of dude behaviour, or you invent a series of nonsensical rituals (see almost every list of 'rape prevention behaviour for women') to avoid it happening to you; because on both ends of the spectrum you've been told everyday of your life that rape/abuse/harassment/assault is not a matter of if but a matter of when, and that when it happens it will be your fault no matter how many precautions were taken.

A lot of people do both.

The fact is turning something into a horny fantasy is way easier means to handle reality than spending 100% of the time you spend existing in pants-wetting-terror.