[ SECRET POST #4419 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4419 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



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02.
[Roxane Gay (author)]


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03.
[Pokemon]


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04.
[Jonathan Groff in Mindhunter (formerly King George III in Hamilton)]


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05.
[The ABC Murders]


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06.
[Zac Efron as Ted Bundy in Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil, and Vile]


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07.
[Marcus Wareing, Gordon Ramsay - Burning Point (documentary)]


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08.
[Parks and Recreation, Ben/Leslie]












Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 51 secrets from Secret Submission Post #633.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Somehow this secret feels like it was made by a 16-year-old parroting all the typical social media rhetoric without much context or understanding of what it means.

Anyway, I thought the trailer was fun, too, and clearly the film has an ironic self-awareness to it. And I don't get all the pearl-clutching over serial killer shows/movies. But I don't believe entertainment media affects normal people in real life, and I'm afraid you can't convince me otherwise.

From what I've read about serial killers, they don't kill a bunch of people to be famous. They do it because they're mentally ill, often the result of abuse, and have these compulsive urges they can't seem to satisfy, no matter how many times they act them out. At least that's my understanding of what drove Bundy. I don't think Bundy would have gone to see a serial killer movie and been like, "Well, shit, that's what I need to be doing with my life."

[(Anonymous)]

A lot of serial killers, especially those like Bundy who develop a kind of media personality, actually do highly value publicity. Some even get upset and angry if the media misrepresents their crimes or motive, and at least one (David Berkowitz, aka the Son of Sam killer) altered his "pattern" specifically to play into the media circus. (Specifically, he began trying to kill one woman in every borough of NYC only after local papers speculated that might be his plan.)

[(Anonymous)]

OK, but that's not the same as watching a movie about serial killers and suddenly deciding to become one for the publicity.

[sparrow_lately]

I don't think anybody's suggesting the movie is going to make people serial killers so much as that it's pretty vile to depict a rapist and murderer who tortured, raped, and killed young women and middle and high school aged children as some kind of kooky rebel.

[(Anonymous)]

But that's.. exactly what the secret says.

"I think it contributes to the problem of why some serial killers become serial killers in the first place."

The portrayal appears clearly ironic to me, but I guess it's good for marketing that it also brings out the moral guardians like you to up the hype.

[sparrow_lately]

The man kept the cadavers of teenaged girls he'd beaten and/or strangled to death so he could dress them up, paint their nails, take pictures with them, and have sex with their corpses. He lured teenagers into his car by pretending to need help, then restrained them, beat them, strangled them, raped them, and left them to die of their injuries. I don't think I'm some kind of conservative, pearl-clutching moral guardian for raising my eyebrows at a film depicting him so cavalierly like he's sticking it to the man.

[(Anonymous)]

No, you're a conservative, pearl-clutching moral guardian for totally missing the point.

And wow, that's a really graphic depiction of his crimes for someone who finds them so abhorrent. Wouldn't be surprised if people complained about a lack of warning.

[(Anonymous)]

No, you're a conservative, pearl-clutching moral guardian for totally missing the point.

Well, I mean, no

they're not a pearl-clutching moral guardian, and they're very justified in the point that they're actually making, they were just incorrect about the different argument that OP was originally making

[(Anonymous)]

For missing the point of the portrayal.

The movie isn't trying to make him look like a rock star rebel. It's trying to make him look like the pathetic rock star rebel-wannabe that he was.

[sparrow_lately]

I don't object to a film about Bundy, or even one that deals very directly and graphically with his crimes. I object to the presentation in this trailer of Bundy and his crimes. Cinema is a language of signifiers, and we has consumers of film have learned to associate particular signifiers with particular themes, ideas, and sympathies. The trailer primes us to side with/root for, or at least on some level cheer on, Bundy, because of the way it is cut and edited, the use of music, the text and presentation of the title slides, etc. It's fucked up for the trailer of a movie about Ted Bundy, a real man who really did rape and murder over twenty innocent women and children, many of them too young to vote, to have a vibe closer to that of the trailer for Suicide Squad than that of a comparable film like The Silence of the Lambs or Zodiac.

ETA: If you actually think what I'm objecting to is...acknowledging things Ted Bundy literally did then you are confused.

[(Anonymous)]

"contributes to the problem" =/= "watching a movie about serial killers and suddenly deciding to become one for the publicity"

[(Anonymous)]

OK maybe I misunderstood. Hopefully OP will tell us how it contributes to the problem.

[(Anonymous)]

There's no maybe about it. The secret simply does not say what you claim it does. Either you're trolling, or have poor reading comprehension skills. I know which answer I suspect, though.

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybe saying extremely vague things like "x contributes to y" with no further explanation invites misunderstandings?

And I'm not intentionally trolling here, I just sincerely don't get the moral outrage over this film or how it's supposed to contribute to narcissism anymore than, say, Instagram or the 24/7 news cycle.

[(Anonymous)]

But the secret never claims this is a thing. This appears to be your rather puzzling and unsupported interpretation of it.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd welcome your interpretation!

[(Anonymous)]

"Contributes to the problem" - one factor out of many, I'd assume. The phrase definitely doesn't indicate that it's the sole cause, or even the main cause. I wrote another comment that listed some well known serial killers who enjoyed the fame they received from their crimes. Glorifying serial killers by touting their cleverness, their seeming invincibility, their catchy names, etc. would likely appeal to people with a narcissistic streak. Will it cause people to go out and commit multiple murders if they see a depiction like that? No.

But when you see that some serial killers clearly enjoy their interactions with the media and police and enjoy the public attention, it'd be naive to think that fame isn't a factor.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm still so confused as to how a film contributes to serial killing, and it's really frustrating that no one will give me a straight answer.

[(Anonymous)]

You've been given plenty of straight answers. Clearly they don't gel with your initial misreading of the secret though, and I suspect that's the real problem, in your view.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Hmm... would you say that, for example, a movie that portrays the Columbine kids or the guys involved in the Bundy standoff or Islamic terrorists as potentially badass, wouldn't lead some crazy people to be like "wait, hey, I could do that?" and do copycat crimes?

Cause copycat crimes are a thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_crime

Granted, these aren't sane normal people in the first place, because no movie or video game or book or whatever drives normal people to kill others. But the glamorization of such people definitely does lead some messed up people to be like, "hey, I could be famous too" in ways that a documentary about what a sad and kind of pathetic thing it was to do, wouldn't, because generally messed up people who want to be famous don't want to be remembered like that.

And you could argue those people were messed up in the first place, but not every messed up person, for example, shoots up a school. But I'm willing to bet one or two might, if such a Columbine movie starring some famous movie stars and looked fun and cool and exciting were made.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for actually engaging with me instead of just calling me a dumb troll.

I think where I am confused is that I don't see this portrayal as a glamorization or romanticization, and I can't think of any other portrayal I would call a glamorization. Fight Club maybe? American Psycho? They had the same feel as the Bundy trailer, but the message was clearly that these guys were losers behind a hip, shiny facade. Not that say that idiots out there WON'T use the portrayals to glamorize the behavior, but as you say, these aren't normal, sane people to begin with. And I don't think we should refrain from portraying things in entertainment media just because a tiny percentage of the population will miss the point and use it as an excuse to commit atrocities. Although I can see that, yes, this is probably one of many, many contributing factors to why insane people do insane things.

[bio_obscura]

a documentary about what a sad and kind of pathetic thing it was to do

The world needs way more of this for the simple reason that it's more interesting than a serial killer movie that plays out exactly like a "rise and fall" rock-star bio-pic.

[(Anonymous)]

Da Glamourizing the behavior and presenting a serial killer in a relatable “outsider” light does feed into mental illness and could legitimize and exacerbate deluded, obsessive thoughts or help incentivize thrill killers. There’s been school shooters who specifically want that blaze of defiant “glory” and attention.

[(Anonymous)]

There have been several killers who killed for fame. Including several serial killers.

[(Anonymous)]

There are certain types of serial killer who definitely appreciate the fame and notoriety. Zodiac, for example, Dennis Rader aka BTK and David Berkowitz aka Son of Sam. Bundy himself was enough of a narcissist that he enjoyed being consulted for other serial killer cases. Richard Ramirez was well known to bask in the attention of the press and play up his image. They don't kill a bunch of people to be famous, no... but the fame was definitely one aspect of their crimes.