[ SECRET POST #4545 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4545 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 33 secrets from Secret Submission Post #651.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/C8OnU8B.png

[philstar22]

She was always specific about her targets, though. Yes, in real world context, burning people is terrible. But in Game of Thrones context, all the heroes were guilty of murder and torture and other terrible things. She wasn't any worse than Jon Snow or anyone else.

What was unbelievable was have her suddenly not care about specific targets. That was a development they didn't show us and didn't earn, and I don't get why some people can't see that. Even if you hated her from the beginning, if you can't see that this is a clear change in character, I'm really not sure what show you were watching.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it was the sudden change that bothered me. I don't think it's out of character for Dany to carelessly kill civilians while aiming at a bigger target, I do think it's out of character for her to not keep her bigger goals in mind.

[sparklywalls]

I thought the main issue was that she went from killing people the story encouraged you to feel deserved it on some level to killing kids quite quickly. I'm not saying killing people is something that should be celebrated but the story very much framed her past kills as having some sort of justification or was done to characters we weren't meant to like anyway, such as Sam's father and brother - though I admit that was pretty shitty of her.

I'm not mad about her becoming a villain (I know some people are) but it was like she went from A to Z skipping out around 20 letters on the way. But the same can be said of basically every character in season 8 really. I've moved into the acceptance phase with how the show ended. No point being upset about it, it's done now.

[(Anonymous)]

From a Death of the Author point of view, I think there's something fairly profound in "once you accept that it's A-OK to burn people to death because you think they're Bad, other apparently-firm lines become actually very easy to cross". If you have the power to do that all the time, and you're a human with bad days, why wouldn't you? This is why individual humans shouldn't have access to carpet bombs.

Like. To reduce the scale to absolute absurdity, I love my cat like anything and absolutely would never think he deserved to be hurt. But if I was in the habit of killing, say, Pest Rats in excruciating ways whenever I was frustrated, I think it would be a lot easier to just kick him one day when I was having a meltdown.

.....but from a "two dudes passed up a chance to make a lengthier season so they could run off to star wars, and have always made some iffy choices re: gender politics, this is a matter of public record" perspective, I am 100% sure this was not the intended thematic point and they're just being lazy hacks who think "bitches be crazy" counts as a character arc, so fuck those guys.

[(Anonymous)]

Ned Stark was evil! Chopping people’s heads off is morally inexcusable and I mever understood why we were supposed to cheer for him when he was so horrible!

[(Anonymous)]

Arya, Jon, beheaded people, executed people, Sansa smirking at Ramsey being fed to his dogs is good but Dany not crying over her abusive brot-her's death is bad. Dany killing the khals who'd expressed desire to gangrape her death is Evil or something. I hate how fandom has become Dany is Evil and Sansa is PURE.

[(Anonymous)]

Burning slavers and rapists is the same as burning innocent citizens. OK.png

You sound like someone I don't want to ever know, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

She was also killing innocent civilians, it's just that before sacking King's Landing she was Very Sorry after the fact.

[(Anonymous)]

Where and when did OP say that?

And just to be clear, are you arguing that you feel burning people (or crucifying) them alive is morally justifiable if the victim committed bad deeds?

[(Anonymous)]

DRACARYS 🔥🔥🔥

[(Anonymous)]

And there we have it. The skewed moral universe of the Dany stan. You sound like someone I would view as very dangerous.

[(Anonymous)]

Same. It's almost always Sansa stans who hate Dany. I knew one who wouldn't hear how backstabbing Sansa had Ever done Anything wrong but got uppity about Dany burning traitors and khals who'd basically threatened to gang-rape her death.

[(Anonymous)]

Arya fed someone's kids to their father, Sansa fed someone to their dogs, Tyrion strangled his girlfriend to death, Jon Snow hung a child.

[(Anonymous)]

*hanged

[(Anonymous)]

it's funny how every time someone brings up these details, the Dany-haters have nothing to say. why is Dany the only one being held accountable for bad shit when literally every other character does it?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes but they're "good people" ie characters the Dany haters like, as opposed to Obviously Evil Dany who they hate *sigh* And no matter how many times these things are pointed out it's always "Dany did worse!"

[soldatsasha]

Half the protagonists are absolutely horrible, and the other half are morally grey at best, but bc they're framed as the protagonists we cheer them on anyway. Also, the way characters are framed changes over time. Jaime and Theon slide from being Big Bads to heroes. Characters like Arya and Sandor are heroes for being ruthless killers. Other characters like Cersei are framed as evil for killing people, even when the people they kill are equally horrible.

With Dany, I think the change in framing was probably just too abrupt, and it was telegraphed poorly in earlier seasons. There's a huge focus early on in the story on her victimhood, and later on when she's taking over Slaver's Bay they show her being a merciful ruler but also a vengeful and incompetent one. However, as the writing quality starts to nosedive in Seasons 5+6, a lot of the ambiguity of her character (and everyone else's) is lost. Whereas before we got lots of scenes of her making mistakes, dealing with consequences, feeling guilty, listening to or ignoring advice, etc. in later seasons we just get some shots of Dany looking sad and pretty and/or cool in black spiky leather, and various people falling over themselves about how great she is.

This same problem applies for other characters, too, but most of them have finished their developmental arcs by that point in the story so it's not as noticeable or jarring.

But you add all that up and it seems like the show is presenting her as a leader who made a lot of mistakes but is maybe getting better, bc she's framed as being so cool and awesome, rather than a shitty leader in the process of being consumed by her lust for power who keeps escalating the horrible shit she does.

And then all of a sudden you switch from framing her as the Big Good to the Big Bad in a rushed, poorly written and executed way, and you get a lot of confused viewers and pissed off stans.

[(Anonymous)]

There's been discussion since Lena Headey spoke about Cersei's miscarriage that never made it to screen, that the whole plot got switched for the final season. That the planned Dany/Jon rule with their heir vs mad!Cersei had to go to "subvert expectations" and put goddamn Bran on the throne despite him refusing the idea of ruling in the North.

[(Anonymous)]

You know, if the series was something besides Game of Thrones, you might have had a point. But since it is and other characters have done similar things (bar the sudden whole killing craze which was done poorly as fuck) yet they ended the series still being “good” your argument doesn’t hold up.

Also foreshadowing or whatever doesn’t excuse shit writing.

[(Anonymous)]

Fucking everyone in this series has murdered someone including Jon Snow, Ned, Robb, Arya, Tyrion, etc. yet I've no doubt you rooted for at least one of them OP. Never mind that Dany only killed people who had it coming.

Fuck, I hate having to stand up for a character I don't even care much about, but come on, this is GOT.

[(Anonymous)]

She's blonde and beautiful, of course she must be good.

[(Anonymous)]

no one's saying she can't be bad. we're just saying S8 was poorly written and the pacing was shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Then fucking write a good arc that doesn't have her killing Objectively Bad People to suddenly, because of a fucking bell, deciding to murder everyone.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, people being shocked, shocked that she went on a killing spree like that and was the final villain someone had to put down is really fucking hilarious. It was obvious from season one that that was going to happen.