Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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fandomsecrets2009-01-08 04:54 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-01-08 04:54 pm
[ SECRET POST #734 ]
⌈ Secret Post #734 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
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[Arwin/"The Suite Life of Zack and Cody"]
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105. [repeat]
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[Wizards of Waverly Place, Justin/Alex]
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[Gundam 00, Lockon Stratos]
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[CW RPF]
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[Supernatural]
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[OEL, Christy Lijewski]
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[The Talented Mr Ripley]
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[Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones]
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[Teddy Ruxpin, Baldur's Gate]
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[Frost/Nixon, David Frost]
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[Steve Guttenberg & Paul o'Grady - The Paul o'Grady Show]
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[Life]
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[Malin Berggren, Ace of Base]
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 082 secrets from Secret Submission Post #105.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 01:35 am (UTC)(link)It must be strange to feel that way, since you're American and the world normally revolves around you. How does it feel?
Could this possibly be why some people don't like Hetalia?!
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 02:10 am (UTC)(link)1) America never bottomed or topped in the actual canon. Hell, there is no sex in Hetalia.
2) Even the secret person admits that it's stupid that she feels that way.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 04:16 am (UTC)(link)2 - Or tell you you're "too sensitive" for not liking the portrayal, or to stop harshing their squee because everyone's having fun except you.
Or should I replace "too sensitive" with "stupid"?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 05:13 am (UTC)(link)Look, you don't have to like Hetalia or whatever, but I'm tried of this bullshit thinking that Americans never experienced hardships, or that other aren't just as privileged as Americans.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 05:51 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 06:32 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 07:13 am (UTC)(link)If the general worldwide consensus is that America is privileged, selfish, and self-absorbed, I think that says something.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 10:04 am (UTC)(link)Well, the world thinks isn't the truth for every American although there is a sizable self-absorbed, selfish and privileged people in other developed nations as well. Can you tell me, a African American female who barely makes $22,000 a year on crappy health coverage is more privileged than the Queen of England simply because I'm American and she's British? It's not like Americans don't get rude tourists as well or get treated rudely in other countries as well.
I'm sorry that most Americans don't know every country's leader is and that is not a result of ignorance by privilege, but a result of ignorance by our failing education systems and the growing movement of idiocy for the last few years. It's pretty hard to get a quality education here like somewhere in Europe's developed countries unless you're willing to shell out money.
The another big reason why the view of Americans soured was Bush because there was a more positive outlook of us before under Clinton, even when he did some dumb shit as well.
Plus nearly half of us didn't want the War of Terror either. We knew it was a very bad idea. I wish Bush and his company got tried for his war crimes but I know he won't mostly he's rich and has a lot of political connections.
I'm tired that people think Americans hasn't suffer tragedies and can't relate. Not every American is white and privileged and it's not like even if they were white and privileged, it's not they not have empathy. And I wonder why this only apply to all Americans when this can be applied for the world?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 10:28 am (UTC)(link)Do you know why you could have a growing movement towards idiocy in the past few years? Because your country has the luxury of being able to choose to be idiots and still have a higher quality of life than most African nations, and even most first/second-world nations. You elect an idiot president, fight a war no one supports, break laws that other nations have to obey, and the rest of the world can't do shit to you. Because you're goddamn America, fuck yeah, here to save the motherfucking world yeah. And if other countries don't like it? Tough titties for them.
That is fucking privilege, but also beside the point. The point is that Americans don't seem to get upset about a series/fandom that has deeply troubling racial/historical issues until it personally makes them feel bad, because apparently it's not offensive until it offends them. That's bullshit.
Diff non-American anon
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 11:11 am (UTC)(link)Funny you should say that, as it's actually part of his characterization in Hetalia.
Re: Diff non-American anon
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 01:07 pm (UTC)(link)Wealthy in total dollars, but not per capita. Plus 70% of our money belongs to 1% of the population.
We only have an unequaled force because of technology although the defense spending (that's pretty out of control as well). Plus, this 'policing of the world' is exhausting our troops numbers.
It's less of choosing than don't have much of a choice for most people. Guess what, in America, if you live in a bad neighborhood with a shitty school, you're pretty much stuck there unless you a) lie about where you live (which is illegal now but people still risk it), and b) have money. People cope with it by not saying a solid education isn't all that important and people who do have the money or managed to scrape enough to pursue are elitist. A sickening thing? Yes, but I personally have seen it happened to people who are close to me. The only reason it is not a really serious problem now because the generation isn't old enough to do real damage yet. And the reason I chose not to use African countries because they don't even have a stable economy in most areas. But are you really going to say we have the best education system in world? Colleges maybe, but even the American population in them is predicted to shrink little by little because there is a growing population of Americans that simply aren't qualified for college.
I didn't get the President I wanted (the shitty part of a democratic republic that 51% of the people is enough for your vote to not count), I never wanted the war and I wanted the UN to stop acting like a bunch of pussies and charge Bush and his administration for his war crimes, but they won't. Who is really running this country, any country really, is who has the money, if you have it, it doesn't matter what Joe Shmoe says if he doesn't have the cash to back it up.
Honestly, most fans do get that Hetalia can be offensive to some people, but the other side has to know not all people feel that way. This is an issue that not everyone will agree with. And I'm very sure that some people who hated Hetalia didn't really care until their country was in it too (and yes, I have seen past posts when this happened).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 08:25 pm (UTC)(link)And who asked you to police the world? What makes you think you have the right to police the world? OH WAIT.
Guess what, in America, if you live in a bad neighborhood with a shitty school, you're pretty much stuck there unless you a) lie about where you live (which is illegal now but people still risk it), and b) have money.
Guess what, this is the same situation in every other country. Except some countries are all "bad neighborhoods". Sometimes the options are a) until you're raped and murdered or b) have your money stolen by a local drug lord though. Drug lords that exploit their native people to provide drugs to other countries, including America, by the way.
I wanted the UN to stop acting like a bunch of pussies and charge Bush and his administration for his war crimes
Are you totally naive? What do you think would happen? That Americans would LET them take Bush and put him on trial? That Bush would let HIMSELF be taken out? That Americans would ever put up with the UN (which the majority of Americans hate and despise, ironically, for trying to be "world police", except by world they really mean America police, and no one polices america) exerting any kind of authority over them?
Why do you think the UN acts like a bunch of pussies? BECAUSE AMERICA IS HUGE, HAS ALL THE WEAPONS, AND REFUSES TO LISTEN, AND THEY ARE SCARED OF YOU. What an advantageous position to be in!
I do understand that not all Hetaliafans feel that way, but it seems the majority of them here at f!s do.
And yeah, other countries have done the same thing, and I call bullshit on them as well.
(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2009-01-09 21:37 (UTC) - Expandno subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 01:11 pm (UTC)(link)how the table turns
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 03:35 pm (UTC)(link)Your entire rant is apparently about how the whole entire United States is a corrupt hive mind that moves and breathes in unison and is out to police the free world. While their foreign policies in recent years may make this assumption somewhat tempting, America is still not its government. Seriously, even speaking as a non-American, it's kind of amazing to see this level of hate being trotted out and thrown in the face of someone simply trying to argue that the average American isn't automatically more privileged in every single other person in the world. This doesn't help international cooperation anymore than the idiocy of the Bush administration has. You buy into the stereotype even more than the Hetalia fantwits.
Also, that last point is ridiculous. There's no evidence that the person posted the secret is even vaguely upset about the series. They're just worried about some standard seme/uke bullshit, now with added lulzy nationalism.
Re: how the table turns
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)Also I don't recall an argument about not judging a country based on its government, just on not judging a country on racial stereotypes. I'm not sitting here calling Americans big dumb white fatties after all. I'm saying that you've generally fucked over the entire world in the name of your own self-interest. So Joe Shmoe didn't want to invade Iraq, boo hoo, it still happened because your government made it happen so take some responsibility.
And yeah, the average American IS more privileged than the majority of the world. Accept it.
The fun part is that everything about Hetalia is colored as nationalistic, simply due to the nature of the series itself.
The fact that people are puzzled that this leads to conflict is anyone's guess.
"My country's not a pussy!"
"What, are you saying mine is?! It isn't!"
Re: how the table turns
(Anonymous) - 2009-01-09 21:51 (UTC) - ExpandRe: how the table turns
(Anonymous) - 2009-01-10 01:59 (UTC) - Expandno subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 11:06 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 01:09 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 03:44 am (UTC)(link)If you have a problem with the U.S.A. acting like the world police, you can build a time machine and go back in time and keep Hitler from ever gaining power, because if it weren't for World War II, Americans probably would have stayed very much in their own country and left the world alone. Seriously, learn some history. The American policy up until Pearl Harbour was to leave the rest of the world to it's own devices.
Oh, but if America did say, "Fuck this, we're not bothering with the rest of the world," they'd be lambasted for not caring about the 'global community'. Except when they do stick their nose out, they get called warmongers, liars, baby-killers. No matter how much good they do, they're seen as evil and not caring about any country but their own. Guess you can't win if you're American.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 04:12 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 07:17 am (UTC)(link)no subject
If you dislike Hetalia, I'm sorry, and you don't have to like it, and I hope you have fun with the fandoms that you do like.
However, not everyone in the fandom can't understand why some people dislike Hetalia. Hell, at this point, a good majority of the fandom can probably understand why some people dislike the fandom. You replying to someone who didn't mention anything at all about all the wank trying to say that she is insensitive and can't understand why people might not like the series is pretty hurtful, because you're expecting every single Hetalia fan to be insensitive, across the board. You don't have to like it. You don't even have to not be offended. But please don't start thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is a bad person just because a chunk of the fandom is responding insensitively. Or, to put it another way: OP of 132 has a bullshit, sucky attitude, but we're not all the OP of 132.
I'm going to find all the crazy uber-defensive fans, and all the rabid haters who despise everyone who likes the series because we're all such horrible people, and I'm going to mail them puppies. And kittens. With either rainbows, or sparkles, or sparkly rainbows attached.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 08:32 am (UTC)(link)I mostly used the secret as an opportunity to rephrase my issues with Hetalia in a way that might be more understandable to the OP, since I find that most anons/fen here write off offensive material as no big deal, since it's not something that personally affects them and therefore is not legitimate. I'm thinking in particular of the South African anon who posted a secret here recently about how colonization destroyed her country, and the anons telling her to essentially "get over it" and that "it wasn't a big deal" and happened a really long time ago, who cares. That kind of blindness to anything outside your own situation/country really bothers me, and it seems particularly pandemic among American fans, since most American fans don't have much reason to be offended by Hetalia as opposed to other countries that get represented in more offensive ways, by fandom or canon.
It would probably be inaccurate to say that I wasn't targeting all Hetalia fen with this, inadvertantly or not, but my rant was mainly directed at people like I mentioned above, that write off other people's feelings or reservations about Hetalia as being too sensitive or not being legitimate, because they are not offended, and therefore why should anyone else be, and why don't people just stop deciding to be offended already? As you've shown, there ARE respectful people in Hetalia fandom (I assume you're in it), but here on F!S, they seem to be in the minority.
in which I talktalktalk ._.
Yeah, it actually really makes me sad to see how many people are responding to people who are honestly upset with things like "GET OVER IT." I like to think that the reason so many of the people here are responding like that is because the sane ones have gotten all their reasonable stuff out back when the wank was shiny and new and just aren't participating anymore, or never did to begin with. Or that some of them are overreacting even to understandable secrets by kneejerking and going "AUGH WE KNOW OKAY STOP TRYING TO MAKE US FEEL LIKE BAD PEOPLE" even when that isn't the intent. I know I overreacted in one post, back when the more insensitive comments from Hetalia fans were just starting and I was tired of the secrets saying they looked down on the whole fandom, and I wish I hadn't -- it's just too easy to feel attacked even when you're not being attacked, and more people need to calm down and realize this, me included sometimes.
And yeah, those people irritate me way too much, too. Especially the attitude that the people who are offended are just being offended to be cool or for attention or something. If someone's offended by something, it's a visceral reaction, not something they can help. Even if it was a nonsensical reaction, which in the case of people who are offended by Hetalia, I'd say it's 99% of the time not, just saying "GET OVER IT" isn't going to help anything and it's incredibly just... wrong. They're worse than the people judging the fandom.
On a semi-related note, I feel really bad for all the flack the South African anon got, but I have to admit that secret rubbed me wrong in some ways and I only hope I explained it well enough back there. She really didn't need to put up with that BS from the fandom, but I think she was overreacting -- not in that she was offended by the series, but that I assume she had not read the series, not by the fact that she was offended but by some of the assumptions she was making as to what her character would have been like (especially the blonde hair and blue eyes bit). That alone again wouldn't be reasons to call overreaction, but I honestly feel bad for the fact that she was making a ton of assumptions for something that hadn't happened yet and might not ever happen, and was so distressed over them. She was painting a worse picture in her head than canon was giving her, and was really upsetting herself over that, and for her own sake I wish she wouldn't -- it's just a little too unnecessary to be tearing herself up over, when she's making most of it up in her own head. But she certainly doesn't need to "get over" anything, because it's totally understandable distress that she's certain that the series would be making fun of tragedy in her country's history, and almost all of the responses to her were completely out of line.
For her sake, I hope that her country is introduced, and she is one of the kickass females of the series.
Re: in which I talktalktalk ._.
(Anonymous) 2009-01-09 09:57 am (UTC)(link)It is easy to feel attacked, that's true, but I think one of the paradoxes of Hetalia fandom is that when someone brings up the fact that there is something in Hetalia fandom that they find offensive (in a way, that they feel "attacked" by an offensive portrayal of some kind), Hetalia fans (at least here) then view that as an attack against them personally. There's this trend to respond to "I feel attacked by Hetalia because [blank]" with "WELL I FEEL ATTACKED BECAUSE YOU ARE OFFENDED AND YOU ARE MAKING ME FEEL BAD" which isn't the same thing. On one hand, you have someone offended on behalf of their country/nationality/race/gender, and on the other, you have someone offended because they feel like they should be ashamed of their fandom. These two things are definitely not equivalent, and I think this dichotomy is contributing to the vitriol between Hetaliahaters and Hetaliafen. I don't think either side really understands where the other is coming from, so it's easier to slip into wankbait type attacks from both sides. I also think privilege plays a part in this, but that might be going off on a tangent...
I think South African anon definitely had a point, and her rage at the treatment of UK in the fandom given what it did to her and other countries was totally justified, but I think she expressed it a little poorly. The way I read her secret, it seems like she went from something that annoyed her to blind rage by the end of it (thus the allcaps FUCK YOU when it kind of started calmly), and she probably just listed some trends in Hetalia (exaggerated for the sake of hyperbole I assume) that irritated her the most as she got angrier. At least, that's how I interpreted it. It's hard to say whether she was in fandom or not though, since she never showed up in the comments (although given some of the responses, maybe it was better off that she never did) ...I guess we may never know.
The thing is, I feel that South African anon can't be an isolated case... surely there are other people out there in Hetalia fandom from smaller countries (like the Lithuania anon for example) that feel this way as well, but feel they can't object without being mocked or told they're stupid as a result, as the comments here from other anons/fen have shown.