[ SECRET POST #5116 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5116 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 10 secrets from Secret Submission Post #732.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. https://i.imgur.com/zs7N1YU.png

[feotakahari]

“This other content sucks, but you don’t see people calling that out!” is the weakest defense you can give of fiction. It encourages people to find some third work that’s better than both of them.

ETA: I’ve seen callouts of Western romance, too, and the fans defend it by saying “male authors” are also cliche and repetitive.

Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

...

Not OP

[(Anonymous)]

... but bring on the third option, because those two aren't doing it for me anymore.

[(Anonymous)]

I think there are a lot of people who are in The Callout Fandom more than they're in a fandom for any particular piece of type of media. Callouts are a form of fanwork to them, and it's the type they're most into. So they'll go wherever they think the most fertile ground for callouts is.

When you point this out, they say "What's so bad about thinking critically??!??" Nothing. But most of these "critics" are not really thinking critically themselves, they're just mindlessly parroting what others have said. And making it your entire personality, and thinking it entitles you to butt in on cultures you don't understand (specifically westerners giving incredibly outdated and stereotyped "critiques" of East Asian media) and judge content you haven't even read/watched/played yourself, makes you kind of a tedious tool.

[(Anonymous)]

Common people in Japan think that anime and manga is weird to an extent. You'll still see people reading manga on their commute to and from work, but it's not like anime doesn't get criticized and associated with otakus in its own home country either.

[(Anonymous)]

You're misinformed. Common people in Japan don't think anime is weird at all. But they do think that a) obsessive people are weird (as everyone should), b) there is weird anime. Just like there's perfectly "normal" anime such as Doraemon or Gintama or Kimetsu no Yaiba there's also weird tentacle rape porn number 1928.

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who's been in anime fandom for decades now, I can only agree a lot. To me, it's the "default" so the "normal" shows (haha, I meant western shows yeah.) are often boring. But I'm so used to it by now I just have a "yeah, right, blah blah talk to my hand stupid" reaction to it. I'm not going to waste my time explaining why it's xenophobic or at least very protectionist of you to be like that.

And honestly? I hate how western queer media / products are often very "gay. This is gay. I'm gay you are gay. Everyone's gay. Queer people are not straights." This is also why I can't play indie "queer games" or read indie "queer comics" and the such. I'd rather have fetichistic uke/seme dynamics (which, by the way, I don't like either) than this kinda "gay-straight feuds" mindset that I see in many western products.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh god, this. I can't STAND most Western queer media and I'm a queer person. It's just so over the top and performative and ridiculous, like rainbows to the face "gay gay gay have I mentioned that I'm gay today?"

I want queer media that's the equivalent of what we get for straight media: stories about people who just happen to be gay, not screaming from the rooftops how gay they are.

[(Anonymous)]

There are two flavors of those who I know that actually say bad things about BL/yaoi. They are not mutually exclusive

1. They misunderstand that it's all explicit.

2. Homophobes

Of course, it could be different for others, but, usually, those are the BIGGEST stuff. There's criticism within those who read (yaoi hands, over-feminization, bara vs pretty boys, rape=love), but that's what I see without.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure western porn and western romance gets the sacred cow treatment. If anything, western romance is criticized even more in the west, simply because it's so common.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, Western romance is criticized ruthlessly and sneered at often by readers of almost every other genre. It's largely because its authorship and readership is mostly women, and because it revolves around romantic and sexual fantasies, which are seen as at once too trivial to be worth writing whole books about AND so powerful and dangerous it can warp those fragile little girl brains.

I know it's common, but...

[(Anonymous)]

I can't get used to art that portrays either Wei Wuxian or Lan Wangji as being super ripped.

Re: I know it's common, but...

[(Anonymous)]

They're pretty ripped in the novel - even WWX before the time jump, but I totally understand since the actors on The Untamed aren't. (Tho as a dancer, Yibo probably has some muscles)

[(Anonymous)]

'Western' romance writers and fans have specialised communities that don't always interact strongly with say, SF or anime fandoms. You'll find a few people that deal with both hands, but.

And yes, there is plenty of energy for call-outs, discussion of fetishism, and complete and utter wankery.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's funny this keeps referring to Japanese content but the picture they used is art for a Chinese-sourced fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I kept thinking this too, but anyway ...

[(Anonymous)]

What irritates me is when western authors complain and call out seme/uke dynamics while also at the same time being all over ABO stuff in western fandoms, which is basically 'seme/uke dynamics because biology.' You're not superior to Japanese fans because you made your stereotypical unhealthy dynamics baked into the setting.

[(Anonymous)]

In what universe does Western romance or shipping not get miles of wank? Just go look at any fandom with a canon ship that's utterly reviled and there'll be miles of wank about how 'unhealthy' or 'toxic' it is regardless of whether it actually is. Never mind how much shit Western romance lit generally gets from like everyone.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't the same kind of critisism thrown at western fic writers, though?

[(Anonymous)]

If you're talking to anime and manga fans about anime and manga, why would they be calling out Western porn or romance? Go talk to some people into Western porn or romance and there's plenty of criticism.

(I agree with your "ew weird Japanese stuff" criticism though.)

[(Anonymous)]

Those two guys are hot but they look identical to me.

This is the problem with anime for me personally if one of them doesn't have blue hair or something.

[(Anonymous)]

The "Japan is so wacky" reputation can be blamed a lot on Japan itself. The Japanese media we see as weird and wacky has intentionally cultivated that image since someone realized there was a market to be made in amusing foreigners.

Of course, on their side, they're the ones laughing at the foreigners for buying it.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't even disagree with your point, but the fact that you're complaining about Western fans being xenophobic and wrong about Japanese media while using a Chinese property for reference is just...painfully lacking in self-awareness.

About the image choice...

[(Anonymous)]

Secret maker here, hello! This was one of the comment secrets submitted, so the OP isn't the one who chose that particular image - I did. As I've mentioned before, I'm usually not familiar with the fandoms mentioned in the secrets so I try my best with image choices and occasionally get it wrong. OP didn't specify a fandom so I do what I usually do when someone doesn't specify a fandom or character and chose an image myself. I'm afraid that this time, I saw "BL" and chose an image featuring characters from The Untamed (a Chinese show) because I thought it was pretty. The discussion of anime didn't really register, and I apologize for the confusion.

Please do not ascribe any hypocrisy or ignorance to the OP for this image choice, it was not their doing.