Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2009-02-06 04:34 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-02-06 04:34 pm
[ SECRET POST #763 ]
⌈ Secret Post #763 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
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102.
[Drake and Josh]
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103.
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104.
[BSG]
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105.
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106.
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107.
[Vampire Knight]
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108.
[Demons]
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109.
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110.
[Life]
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111.
[Roswell]
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112.
[Ga-Rei -Zero-]
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113.
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114.
[Sailor Moon]
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115.
[Pretty Guardian Sailor Moon]
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116.
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117.
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118.
[Persona 4]
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119.
[Ryan Ross; Panic! at the Disco]
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120.
[Persona 4]
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121.
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122.
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123.
[Bleach, Yoruichi]
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124.
[Celtic Thunder]
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125.
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126.
[Underworld Trilogy]
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127.
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128.
[Ursula, the Little Mermaid]
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129.
[Guiding Light]
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130.
[CyberSix]
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131.
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132.
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133.
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134.
[FT Island]
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135.
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136.
[Big Fat Quiz of the Year]
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137.
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138.
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139.
[Torchwood]
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140.
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141.
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142.
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143.
[Runaways, Karolina/Xavin]
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144.
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145.
[Simpsons, Rod and Todd]
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146.
[Joe Loves Crappy Movies (webcomic), Twilight]
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147.
[Utena]
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148.
[Doctor Who/RPS/Russell T. Davies/Benjamin Cook]
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149.
[The Munsters]
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150.
[Adventures of Pete and Pete]
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151.
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152.
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153.
[Jimi Hendrix/Janis Joplin]
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154.
[Taylor Lautner; Twilight Movies]
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155.
[FF13]
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156.
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157.
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158.
[Nick Swardson]
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159.
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160.
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161.
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162.
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163.
(Rachel Maddow, Susan Mikula, Keith Olbermann)
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164.
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165.
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166.
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167.
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168.
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169.
[Earth: Final Conflict, Da'an]
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170.
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171.
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172.
[Ouran, Persona 4]
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173.
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #109.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - doing it wrong ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
170, 163, 156, 146, 132, 103
163. Ummmm....no.
156. I think RPS bothers me because I think good slash entails characterizations that are true to whoever you're writing about, and interaction that makes sense. Because you don't know these people IRL -- it's only possible to go by hearsay, if you're the type that even bothers to keep who you're writing about IC -- it's impossible to write anything good; they're not characters in fiction, where everything about their characterizations and personalities is handed to you on a silver platter. Most RPS, it seems to me, is a projection of the writer's sexual fantasies. Which brings me to the other reason it squicks me so much -- it's highly exploitative. It's OK to slash fictional characters because they're not real. RPS, at least IMHO, is akin to pornography: real human beings presented as nothing more than objects whose sole purpose is sexual gratification. I don't know about anyone else (and I know I'm having a difficult time explaining this), but I find this just a teeny bit unethical, if not more so.
(Of course, if anyone has encountered some good RPS that has made them change their minds, I'd love to read it. Just because I avoid RPS doesn't mean I'm not open to it.)
146. That comic didn't convince me to see Twilight, but it was hilarious nonetheless. JLCM is one of the few webcomics I read. <3
132. What series is the "doing MPD right" image from?
103. ...You know, I would agree with you, if you didn't swear so much and act like the entitled douchebag you rail against. (And, quite frankly, I have found the "right" anime series, as you put it, but it doesn't stop me from thinking most of it is poorly written, overhyped, formulaic fetish fuel. I do like anime as a medium, don't get me wrong, but I'm very picky with what I see.)
156
Re: 156
(BTW, I read an argument in the comments that people who are writing RPS are technically writing about fictional characters -- the personas the people present rather than their actual characters. I suppose it's true, but I still think that good!fic usually, but not always, entails accurate characterization, which is impossible with real people, whereas with fictional characters everything you need is in the text.)
Re: 156
but I still think that good!fic usually, but not always, entails accurate characterization, which is impossible with real people
Depending on who you're writing about, RPS can draw from multiple sources for characterization: books written by or about the individuals, documentaries, specials, interviews, regular appearances, etc. Some of those are more likely to present an "image" than others, so yeah, that would go towards the "writing about the personas" argument, which I think it's valid. But I don't see how that rules out accurate characterizations. It is an accurate characterization of how everyone sees the individual, and unless you know them personally you're not going to know if it's inaccurate.
whereas with fictional characters everything you need is in the text.
ou don't always get everything you need for fictional characters from the text, either. A lot of people like to write about background characters who get very little time in the books. To take a well-known example, say someone is writing epilogue-compliant Harry Potter fanfiction. We only get a glimpse of the new generation of children, and Astoria Malfoy (Draco Malfoy's wife) doesn't have any lines, iirc, just a mention. Yet I've never seen this argument used against fanfiction.
Re: 156
And even if you're writing about a main character, you still don't always get everything about them. A lot of it is left up to interpretation (Heathcliffe from Wuthering Heights, for instance).
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You're right, there are many sources of characterization to choose from when writing RPS. I'd just prefer to read stories where the writer has actually done a good amount of research.
I find that even if you write about background characters, there are always hints in the canon that you can pick up that probably aid in characterization, even if it's something as simple as, "This character really likes eating chocolate." Say you're writing about a child character who only gets a passing mention and that's it. Theoretically, one can still glean some characterization from, for example, the personalities of his/her parents (which tends to affect upbringing), the setting (where the child is growing up), etc. I don't see anything wrong with taking liberties with characterizing someone who gets no more than a brief mention, of course, but these hints need to be considered. I've found that many fic writers just turn these types of characters into Mary Sues. IMHO, if you really don't have enough info about a character, and you can't avoid turning him/her into a Mary Sue/self-insert, it might be a good idea not to write about him/her.
Re: 156
That's probably the case for some fanfiction, yeah. But I don't think all of it qualifies. Just like with other fanfiction, people don't write only about those they think are perfect; they'll write about people who they like but frustrate them sometimes, people with whom they have a love/hate relationship, people who they don't particularly like as individuals at all but do like as part of a group, etc. I've seen a number of stories that are more of a character study of certain celebrities many people don't like. I don't think you categorize everything as "celebrity worship sublimated into something else" any more than you can categorize fictional-person fanfiction as series-worship or similar.
I'd just prefer to read stories where the writer has actually done a good amount of research.
Which is possible with RPS. :)
find that even if you write about background characters, there are always hints in the canon that you can pick up that probably aid in characterization, even if it's something as simple as, "This character really likes eating chocolate."
That's true, but you can't always.
Going back to my previous example from Harry Potter, Astoria Malfoy did not even appear in any previous books. She has one mention in the epilogue of the last book. We have no information on her parents, and while she has a sister, I don't believe we really receive any information on her sister other than her sister's House at Hogwarts. You can probably glean a few things from that information and who she marries, but other than that, you have nothing, literally. And you have no information that supports it being true -- it's all guessing. However, if you are writing about her husband (and son, if applicable), I don't see how you can get by without mentioning her and making a few guesses about her personality.
But when you take those liberties with a background character, which you say you don't see anything wrong with, I fail to see how that is more informed/researched than writing about a real person for whom you have a wealth of information.
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(Anonymous) 2009-02-06 11:28 pm (UTC)(link)Re: 156
Well, considering it hasn't been said AT ALL in this thread, maybe once?
And I didn't assume everyone reads them, but I rarely see ~campaigning~ against gossip websites, etc (which are sorta different from tabloids, at least in the sense that they exist in the same webspace as LiveJournal or even are on LJ) in the same way there is against RPF.
edit: and that's also why I pointed out how, imo, rpf is better than tabloids, in case someone does think tabloids are completely icky, because I don't belief the two are exactly the same.
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See, I was of this mind for a long time, too. I've just gotten into it after six or seven years in fandom, lol, because I felt the same way. It really does depend for me on how well it's written, and I'm telling you, there are some amazing authors out there amidst the awful and mediocre. It was the 'fictional characters' argument that finally swayed me, because in most cases that's what the author is trying to do (there are crazies who think it's real even in non-RPF fandom, so.)
But the more I've read, the more I actually like the way good authors can take an incomplete media personality and turn it into a three-dimensional character. Not all authors can do this, but when it's done right, there can be a lot of different interpretations and it doesn't have to feel OOC if it's consistent throughout one story.
Ha, anyway. :P
Re: 156
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156
Just as a matter of my own curiosity, and you don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but what is your opinion on AUs (which are absolutely rife in RPF fandoms ♥)? Both from an RPF and FPF point of view, I mean.
Re: 156
AUs are fine! I might raise an eyebrow if it's RPF, but at least I know the characters aren't real, they just have a real person's name and image. (TBH, I'm not a huge fan of AUs -- I've found most of the AUs I've read to be poorly written.)
Re: 156
I don't see why good characterisation can't be possible with real people. Good characterisation is characterisation that people find believable of that person, and that's true whether it's FPF or RPF.
Following the AU line of thought: then all fic starring real people is AU because all it's using is a real personal name and image, and the characterisations available to the public. It's not an accurate representation of anything that's happened in the person's life, even if it's based of documented instances. It's just a different kind of AU to the one where the character is, say, a werewolf.
(Sorry, I get a bit tl;dr when I get meta.)
Re: 156
I agree that in texts you don't see everything about a person's life, but I also like to think there's a lot more implied than everything the reader takes at face value, and one can use those little hints as a way of looking deeper into a character.
You're AU argument totally makes sense. :-) Which makes me think my dislike of RPF is more personal preference than anything else -- I'm the kind of guy that likes my fics as close to canon as possible.
132
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Re: 156
And it's not about writing them as they are IRL, but as they are in public - I'm well aware writing Jon Bon Jovi =/= writing John Bongiovi.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-02-06 10:44 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
156
It's one thing for people to have fantasies about celebrities or other real people, it's quite another for them to throw it up onto the internet and try to pass it off as an art or great piece of writing.