[ SECRET POST #5431 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #5431 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #777.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Why are you jumping to stuff about children having sex with adults? Literally no one has mentioned that. You're the one bringing it to the conversation and no one else.

I was thinking more like how Alfonso Cuaron made Y Tu Mama Tambien, and he also made a Harry Potter movie.

[(Anonymous)]

Because nobody gets cancelled for writing vanilla porn, or even BDSM porn. The only things that could get you cancelled is underage, incest, and romanticized darkfics.

[(Anonymous)]

That is so, so completely incorrect I don't know where to start.

[(Anonymous)]

Can you give me some examples? The one thrown a lot in this thread with Tamsyn Muir, but the issue with her fic was that it was a underage non-con posted on a kink meme.

[(Anonymous)]

On the teacher front, a quick google brought up numerous stories:

https://www.inquisitr.com/433997/english-teacher-is-fifty-shades-of-fired-for-self-published-erotic-novel-schooled/ (fired for having written an erotic novel)

https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/jacqueline-laurent-auger-fired_n_6021150 (fired for having been in porn films in the 70s. She did get her job back but she should never have been put through that in the first place)

https://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/olivia-sprauer-teacher-fired-for-being-too-sexy-a-glimpse-inside-her-real-life-6446604 (teacher fired for nudes under a pseudonym and unrelated to her job)

[(Anonymous)]

Article about sex workers losing custody of their children: https://inthesetimes.com/article/presumed-guilty-of-bad-mothering

Another example of a teacher losing their job over sex work, and a really good article about the effect writing can have on your real life if people who have power over you disapprove of it: https://www.writermag.com/writing-inspiration/the-writing-life/writing-hard-truths/

Article about child custody loss because of (adults-only, consensual) BDSM: https://www.thedailybeast.com/parents-can-lose-custody-of-children-just-for-being-kinky

[(Anonymous)]

School volunteer fired for having a (consenting adult only) erotica blog: https://www.dailydot.com/irl/bawdy-bloke-erotica/

Yet ANOTHER teacher fired for writing adult erotic romance: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2011/04/28/going-after-teachers-who-have-side-jobs/

Really good article about how erotica writers navigate these issues, if you're actually interested in learning about it: https://emmanuelledemaupassant.com/2016/06/30/secret-identities/

[(Anonymous)]

What does sex-work have to do with writing kinky fiction for personal enjoyment? I'm pretty sure that most people making call-out posts for fandom writers are pro-sex work. I don't deny that sex workers are treated like crap, but these are completely uncomparable situations.

And from the article on people losing children because of BDSM practices, there's a lot of interesting details: "A social worker backed up the ex-husband’s proofless allegations, even outlandish ones where he claimed their eldest son had been hung from the ceiling by his wrist, and removed the children."

So the issue wasn't that they were kinky, the issue was that multiple people claimed the children were physically abused. It may be that all those people were lying because they were prejudiced towards the couple for being in a BDSM relationship, but no one's argument was that they should lose their children because of the nature of their relationship.

[(Anonymous)]

What does sex-work have to do with writing kinky fiction for personal enjoyment? I'm pretty sure that most people making call-out posts for fandom writers are pro-sex work.

In theory. Unless the sex work involves kinks and roleplay scenarios they don't like.

Personally, I think most fandom callout people are doing it for clout and to get rid of competition. They know they can probably whip up a mob into a frenzy pretty quickly because people are conditioned to believe that callouts are always important and should never be questioned.

For every callout that does have some actual merit, there are hundreds that are complete hot garbage juice.

People know this, which is why it's even more difficult than it used to be, because we don't know if "pedophile" means someone who's really a danger to kids, or someone who drew some anime teens making out.

And you're cherrypicking what you respond to. What about the teachers fired for being in anyway involved in consenting-adult erotica "for personal enjoyment." Yes. That is, in fact, what sex is for.

[(Anonymous)]

> In theory. Unless the sex work involves kinks and roleplay scenarios they don't like.

That would be very difficult to accuse an actress of, and very easy to defend, given how little choice porn actresses have of choosing what they want to perform.

> because we don't know if "pedophile" means someone who's really a danger to kids, or someone who drew some anime teens making out.

I do agree with that, that annoys me as well, though usually just drawing anime teens making out isn't enough to get someone cancelled. Most YA contains scenes of that. And while I personally don't necessarily mind seeing anime teens doing more than making out, I can see why so many teens in fandom feel uncomfortable interacting with adults who make those kind of fanworks.

> And you're cherrypicking what you respond to. What about the teachers fired for being in anyway involved in consenting-adult erotica "for personal enjoyment."

You mean this one? "So how did Eastman/Bright get busted? The details are unclear, but Gather reports that she wrote the novel on a school computer, which violates school policy of using resources for "social networking of a personal nature."

[(Anonymous)]

You do realize that independent-agent sex workers, like on OnlyFans, actually do have a lot of agency when it comes to what they will and won't do, right? And that pro dommes also do? And that there are indie women-run porn houses? There are a lot of women in porn and sex work who absolutely do have their own firmly set boundaries. If a pro Domme is asked to RP a Mommy/little scene, she absolutely can refuse it if it's not her thing, or she can do it and make it great.

Yes, there's a lot of abuse and exploitation. But the argument that women in porn (all of them) can't help it, they don't have agency - that's another version of "well, I guess this icky thing is okay as long as they aren't doing it for pleasure."

Writing smut on a school computer is super stupid, I'll grant you that. Immoral, no. But stupid!

[(Anonymous)]

I fail to understand what does anything in these articles you linked have to do with people posting controversial fanworks for personal enjoyment on the same account they use for their YA works. People can't change their face. They can change their pen-name. And even in the BDSM story you've linked, no one lost children specifically because of the argument that what happens in their bedroom affects the children. There are mentions of physical abuse against the kids that has been backed by social workers, or “an extensive collection of firearms.”

[(Anonymous)]

You're moving the goal posts. You said no one ever gets cancelled for writing or performing in consenting adult erotica, that it ONLY happens when it's incest or noncon or underage. I posted several examples where exactly that happened (cancelled = fired in this case).

[(Anonymous)]

Next time someone complains about lack of queer representation in media, I'm going to point to all the lesbian and gay porn to prove them wrong then. Since you apparently think that porn and mainstream fandom are not two completely different and unrelated spaces with their own separate issues.

[(Anonymous)]

That doesn't even make sense.

But yes, mainstream fandom does include X-rated fanworks. Always has, always will. This is only a problem if you think erotica is inherently bad and something that needs to be hidden out of sight. I do not think that. There are works of all ratings and all sexual content levels, and they coexist side by side. As long as there are tags and warnings, this is fine.

I really don't see what this has to do with queer representation or lack thereof though. That feels like a huge reach.

[(Anonymous)]

Have you read Muir's story? It is very much a story about how awful abuse is, and the victim gets revenge at the end.

[(Anonymous)]

And that was not why she faced call-outs, and was in fact her defense from them.

[(Anonymous)]

That story was indeed what she faced the call-out for. By someone who either had not bothered to read it, or was deliberately misrepresenting it for clout.

[(Anonymous)]

If someone is determined to lie and misrepresent to take you down, you don't need to have written anything at all, they can just make shit up. That was never part of my argument, because it's not something that anyone can help. And I have said previously that is someone goes out of their way to dig stuff up despite the author taking measures to hide it, I'm with the author on that.

My argument was that if you genuinely make controversial fanworks, you should make damn sure to keep it under a sock - or yes, orphan it. This is an appropriate way to act, not something that big bad antis are wrong to force you to do. That is all.

[(Anonymous)]

There's a third way:

Yes, I wrote this, and I'm proud of it and I stand by it. Not everyone can do this of course for obvious employment- and death-threat related reasons, but I think the people who are in a position to, should just...refuse to be shamed. The more people who stand up for themselves, the better off we'll be.

[(Anonymous)]

And the OP of the secret was talking about doing just that and afraid of it STILL being dug up. You seem to be stuck on the idea of someone including their smut penname in their middle-grade book's author bio.

[(Anonymous)]

What even is the line for "romanticized darkfics" anyway? An outraged puriteenie would call literally almost anything that. I don't know why you think that these wankers have an identifiable problematic barometer that you should be able to expertly gauge.

These are the type of people who think YA authors are bad and impure for liking fucking Reylo, bogstandard protag/bad boy het from a mainstream Disney movie.

[(Anonymous)]

> An outraged puriteenie would call literally almost anything that.

And their call-out post would get maybe 3 likes. I've seen it, my friends had call-out posts about them like that.

> These are the type of people who think YA authors are bad and impure for liking fucking Reylo, bogstandard protag/bad boy het from a mainstream Disney movie.

Lmao, you couldn't be further from the truth. Is the idea that someone can keep their "problematic" content away from their main account this unimaginable to you?

[(Anonymous)]

And I've seen callout posts with blatantly false info get thousands of likes, since anecdotal evidence is on the table.

Is the idea that "problematic" content DOESN'T need to be sealed in a secret sin vault forever so foreign to you?

[(Anonymous)]

Right? Geez.