fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #5973 ]

[ SECRET POST #5973 ]

⌈ Secret Post #5973 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 37 secrets from Secret Submission Post #854.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't know if anyone is still interested, but there's been an official statement about their stance on AI.
https://www.transformativeworks.org/ai-and-data-scraping-on-the-archive/

I'm kind of fascinated because there's people getting mad about not being able to report the fics/writers they suspect to be AI. I wonder how many would they accuse on bad writing alone (of course that's not counting the ones that would get reported for the sake of reporting someone they didn't like/false report).

IDK - if someone out-and-out says that they're posting an AI-written fic, I wouldn't have a problem with that being reportable.

My understanding from reading the response to this on Reddit is that if fics are reported for someone tagging that they wrote it with AI, then people will just stop tagging it. And then you can't filter it out.

Now I'm just thinking up a story where an AI robot is fully realized (Murderbot style) and wants to join fandom and share their fic but faces AI discrimination...

Let robots be fans of things!!

We welcome our future robot overlords...into our fandoms.

I'm imagining an AI robot writing Data fanfic and going to conventions to meet Spiner.

They ship Data and J.A.R.V.I.S.

As long as they fan Data and not the Borg...

"My Auto-Biography: as Dictated by Optimus Prime, and co-authored by 12 algorithms, two subroutines, and CHAT-GPT version... “

SA

And my reductio ad absurdum argument!

Are you sure it shouldn't be "My Auto-Botography?"

Autocorrect periodically tries to kill my sentence structures as I am fluent in three languages, am learning a fourth, and occasionally coverse in dialect.

You try fighting all of that language confusion while trying to impersonate a space alien who knows how to say “Bring it!“ in over several thousand different ways...

OMFG, those whiners in comments. 'You gave a reasonable explanation of what you're doing and clarified the original comment that pissed me off! But. I WANT AN APOLOGY AND THIS IS NOT ENOUGH AND WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!'

Fucking hell, they are never, ever satisfied.

To be fair I would kind of like an explanation for why the first apology was so bad. But that's more out of curiosity than anything else.

Probably because they didn't realize one was needed, since the person didn't say OMG, AI, IT'S SO GREAT!! and invite ever AI thing out there to come 'scrape' (shudders) AO3.

I just don't get why anyone is so upset over that interview, because she didn't say anything awful or even bad.
*shrug*

And, collectives rarely write good apologies.

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-14 23:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

tabaqui - 2023-05-14 23:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-14 23:10 (UTC) - Expand

Haha, you're my fave, tabaqui. I appreciate like 95% of your takes, and this is definitely among the 95%. XD

You're a mom, right? Happy Mother's Day, presuming I'm not misremembering!

Cheers! :D

I am, yes, and thank you!

My objection to AI generated fanwork (or "original" work for that matter) is related to the issue I have with people buying their cosplay. While professional costumers/people who make a living selling their cosplay work create amazing things, and I would love to squee at them in admiration and pick their brains about their handwork and creative processes, I can't do that if I complement someone on their cosplay that they purchased.

But people who can't do handwork to make stuff can at least enjoy dressing up in premade or commissioned costumes; maybe they enjoy the idea of becoming the character by roleplaying/acting, or participating in group photoshoots or whatever.

But what's there to enjoy about posting bot-created work? If the posters tell the truth that the work was AI generated, people might still read it even though some fans won't, but any compliments or comments would just be, idk, "thanks for sharing" or "cool idea," because it's not like the poster had a hand in the work beyond at most stringing prompts together.

And if they lied and claimed it was their work? Idk, maybe I'm weird but it would fucking eat at me to be praised for work that wasn't mine. Like, my work may suck but at least I put effort into it. I could see using AI for my actual paid job before I'd use it in my hobbies, because I do my job to help people sure, but also to afford my hobbies and food and shelter. I do my hobbies to create stuff, and sometimes to share it.

Literary analysis; thinking about characters and how they interact, how where/when stories are set influences that, all the thought or emotion that goes into writing... that's gone, with AI. I don't want the answer to "why did you make this choice and not that one, why did you set your AU during the Napoleonic wars and not aboard a spaceship bound for Alpha Centauri," to be "Idk it's what the language learning model spat out based on my prompt and the dataset it was trained on."

I feel like people trying to sell fic commissions are the most likely to post AI generated stuff, because for them creating and sharing work comes second to making money. And in most cases I wouldn't call AI generated content plagiarism even if it does rest on a giant pile of stolen data, but it reminds me of that story of a romance novelist who actually just plagiarized a ton of other authors instead of writing her own stuff.

I'm glad Ao3 doesn't allow fans to ask for money on the site itself, but I feel like allowing AI generated work will only make that problem worse.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about AI and I don't get the point of AI fanworks (except perhaps in a case where someone can't write at all and wants some fic to read, and they keep it to themselves as drawerfic versus posting it as their own work.

My objection to AI generated fanwork (or "original" work for that matter) is related to the issue I have with people buying their cosplay. While professional costumers/people who make a living selling their cosplay work create amazing things, and I would love to squee at them in admiration and pick their brains about their handwork and creative processes, I can't do that if I complement someone on their cosplay that they purchased.

I don't get this, though. People like to dress up as characters they like, which is why Halloween and costume parties are fun. I don't grok your POV at all.

AYRT--I guess for me the people dressing up in premade stuff are like the people who can't write at all who use chatgpt etc to generate drawerfic. It's not the same as making stuff yourself. Dressing up might be fun, but making your own outfit is a separate hobby.

Idk, I know there's problems with viewing handmade/homemade stuff as more, idk, worthy/valuable than mass-produced, because that sets up an argument that people who can't/don't sew their own costumes/write their own fic/make food from scratch/whatever are somehow lesser than people that do. Which is dumb because people don't have to produce anything to be worthy of existing/being people, and also because no one can do everything themselves.

But there's still value in making things by hand, writing your own stories, cooking your own meals, even if you're not an expert or an artistic genius or anything. I'm certainly not; my very best work at any of my hobbies (and life in general) is maybe middling journeyman level and mostly not even that.

(One of the many things I'm only middling at is explaining myself, sorry.)

I'm with the commenter above. I don't get your pov at all. Writers aren't obligated to answer your questions or interact with you at all. Why would it matter if they don't answer you questions because they don't want to, as opposed to not answering your questions because they had a computer write it?

I think the whole AI thing is stupid on it's face because it's NOT AI. It's just an algorithm and, while there may be overlap (stupidest tourist/smartest bear, etc), no algorithm is going to write as well as a middling fanfic author.

I think the whole AI thing is stupid on it's face because it's NOT AI. It's just an algorithm and, while there may be overlap (stupidest tourist/smartest bear, etc), no algorithm is going to write as well as a middling fanfic author

I mean I don't see any reason this fundamentally *has* to be true. It's an article of faith.

(also, drawing a hard line between "AI" and "algorithms" seems.... difficult to justify, to me, to say the least)

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-15 01:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-15 01:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-15 01:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-15 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-15 09:09 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-18 06:45 (UTC) - Expand

Re: AO3 drama development

(Anonymous) - 2023-05-15 09:08 (UTC) - Expand

AYRT--I don't expect every writer to answer my questions or respond to my comments, any more than I expect everyone who reads my fic to ask me questions or leave comments about it.

But up until recently, I could at least be certain that a human did the bulk of the work that I was asking questions about and leaving comments on. If they only wanted to share their work and weren't looking for further interaction from their readers afterwards, they could just ignore any response they got, and (I think?) on Ao3 they can turn off comments.

The bulk of my fic is drawer fic I haven't posted for a variety of reasons; I can hardly expect anyone else to want any particular level of interaction with readers/other fans.

But for writers who do want feedback, whether sheer admiration, questions, concrit, whatever, bot-generated fic has all the usefulness of wooden decoys to ducks. And there are plenty of other writers who don't just want kudos/likes/views on their work, but to discuss it with other readers and writers.

As for AI, I know it's still a misnomer; there's no minds churning out those prompt fills. If there was, I could ask about their creative processes, heh, and not have to understand statistical analysis and computer programming to make sense of the answers.

But I'm using AI in the context of this discussion, which is about language learning models fed massive amounts of often unethically sourced (because it was fed writing not yet in the public domain) and censored (because actual, poorly compensated humans had to set limits on what the AIs could spit out lest they run afoul of corporations and advertisers, by reading and looking at not work/sanity safe writing and images to exclude them) and spitting out statistically common word orders in response to user-generated prompts, not anything self-aware.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only