[ SECRET POST #095 ]

[grayout.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #095 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 30 secrets from Secret Submission Post #014.
Secrets Not Posted: [1] broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, April 11th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

8. What if you keep their personalities canon and write slash/smut?

[(Anonymous)]

DAMMIT MAN, DON'T YOU KNOW THAT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE?

*cough*ipersonallybelievethatmysolitaryslashotpIScanonandnothingwilleverconvincemeotherwise*cough*

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

I personally think that though canon is good, it's still perfectly valid to put them in new situations or relationships, as long as you try and keep the personalities and reactions plausible in some respect. Now if the OP was complaining that her friends are writing about like, oh, they're suddenly having a foursome with people, totally randomly, where the character is known to be completely jealous and unlikely to do that, then yeah, I agree. If it's just 'ew they turned it into a gay relationship and that's just perverted!' then I don't. Lots of the stuff I like, slash wise anyway *could* be plausible. But all of those at least keep personalities correct.

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

WORD. I'm so annoyed by yaoi = OOC. Because it DOESN'T. And my slash OTP IS canon now, like it or not.

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

Yep. And, though lots of stuff you sure don't see on tv, what people write about still *could* be canon, behind the scenes, at least if you get the characters personalities right. At least, the stuff I watch/read sure could be.
I can see people's annoyance if it was just totally twisting things so that it was completely implausible, but, if you do it 'right', (though writing stuff for fun is also fun, if that's what they're doing, stop complaining...) then there shouldn't really be much of a problem.
But maybe I just happen to like stuff where things like that would work... (slash and non slash) Seriously. So much of my stuff- slash, at least lots of scenarios, could be completely plausible. If their personalities are completely OOC then I'm not so forgiving. :P
What's your slash OTP that's now canon, pretentioustfu?

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

Yep. And, though lots of stuff you sure don't see on tv, what people write about still *could* be canon, behind the scenes, at least if you get the characters personalities right. At least, the stuff I watch/read sure could be.
I can see people's annoyance if it was just totally twisting things so that it was completely implausible, but, if you do it 'right', (though writing stuff for fun is also fun, if that's what they're doing, stop complaining...) then there shouldn't really be much of a problem.
But maybe I just happen to like stuff where things like that would work... (slash and non slash) Seriously. So much of my stuff- slash, at least lots of scenarios, could be completely plausible. If their personalities are completely OOC then I'm not so forgiving. :P
What's your slash OTP that's now canon, pretentioustfu?

WORD. Absolute word. My canon OTP is Word and your post.

I know a lot of people get mad when I say this, but I really do think Wolfwood and Vash in the Trigun manga are canon slash, even though they never had graphic buttsex on page. However, they seemed to have a very deep relationship that could have gone friendship or relationship, in volume 10, the last volume where one was alive, there was things like one thinking about wanting to spend his tomorrows forever with the other that definitely pushed the view toward love, and the ending featured no relationships.

Also, in an interview where the writer equivocated about the reaction of yaoi doujinshika when asked what he'd feel about "questionable fanzines" for the anime, he also said he sees love as just one of the connections between people, and wanted to show that in a relationship in his manga. Seeing as theirs was the only relationship that was really depicted in the manga (even though there wasn't buttsex or even kisses on page) I'd say that's enough evidence to claim canon.

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

:) Glad you like what I have to say on this topic.

Hmn, I don't know Wolfwood and Vash, or Trigun... well, heard of Trigun, haven't read it. But, I do strongly believe that just because there isn't graphic stuff on page/on screen, it doesn't mean that it's not possible that it could happen, could be happening, or the author/writer have put it so it *is* happening they're just not showing it. So, fair enough calling yours canon.
I have a few that are like that, or at least I strongly believe there's canon romantic feelings between characters. Others... I can plausibly see situations where they would end up together. :)

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

But, I do strongly believe that just because there isn't graphic stuff on page/on screen, it doesn't mean that it's not possible that it could happen, could be happening, or the author/writer have put it so it *is* happening they're just not showing it.

*dances* I think I love you. One of my arguments for why that is is in my fandom, is that the original fanbase is shounen/seinen, and the writer didn't want to offend his male Japanese fans by making the story totally yaoi-centric with graphic m/m sex and/or didn't want to get the heave-ho from his publisher (he'd already had to switch publishers once for other reasons). Plus, I think he's more interested in explosions and drama than in romantic love depictions. Which is why I love it so much.

But yeah, "there's nothing onscreen/on page" is an argument I personally find spurious, simply because as much as we'd like to believe writers are totally free, most are bound by commercial agreements and by fan expectations and by ratings/FCC/insert legal regulations here. That argument really makes almost as much sense as trying to argue that Lucy and Ricky weren't married in "I Love Lucy" because there wasn't a hardcore porn episode (never mind how unfriendly the 1950s climate was toward any mention of s-e-x despite being able to show a husband spanking his wife clothed. . . yay hypocrisy! But that's another rant. . .)

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

Indeed. There's a lot of subtext in a lot of things, books, movies, tv shows, manga, whatever, where it's quite clear that the author just couldn't show something or go down a particular path for some reason, so just kept it... there but not there. Happens with stuff that 'is' happening in the background, and unrequited love, and stuff that's going to happen in the 'future'. Just because there's no episode where he/she is pining after him/her doesn't mean they might not secretly love them... others, just because you never see them waking up in bed together doesn't mean they don't. Just because they never discuss their feelings or kiss on screen doesn't mean they're not going to at a later date. But I love a lot of britcoms and SO many of them are like that, seriously. Hints all over the shop. I like slash, but not in the 'omgz have to put them together because it'z hot guyz makkin luv!' way, only if I can see a connection. That sort of thing, I'm just '... wth where did you get that from!' (Though, i do understand if people are doing it for fun.) That just makes little sense to me... BUT I totally think that sometimes, it's just 'there'. But unspoken. :)
Something else that annoys me is people who think that OOC is 'he loves her not him!!! So don't slash him with him!' um, that's not OOC people... (as long as there's explanation for it), that's a completely different thing. *sigh*

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I know of lots of writers who just weren't allowed to put in the relationships they wanted to put in for whatever reason. One I know of, I'm completely convinced that they wanted to put it in but didn't want to be known as 'that show with the gay guys' or whatever.

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. I personally don't think I'm overanalyzing to think my fandom's writer could have had several good reasons to be much more subtle with it. One of them is often argued by the anti-yaoi crowd itself, when they say stuff like "it's not about yaoi!" I think the writer was/is probably acutely aware of how many idiotic people would have totally sworn off ever reading any more of the manga/would have thrown royal bitchfits if he'd had anything more than a boatload of subtext, a couple hugs, and a lot of implication.

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

Yep. Guys would be all 'ew it's gay not reading it!' girls would have been all... making it only about Teh Gay and not about their personalities/the plot... *sigh*

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Indeed.

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

I have to decide what I'm doing about that with my own original writing. And it's a scary decision. I can totally see why writers would choose not to go with it. But... it's really sad that the minute there's a relationship there, it's about the relationship, rather than the story or the characters or whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

I wish they would, at least then there wouldn't be the insane cringing and twisting everytime I see it.

I don't mind slash/smut, but it's not something that is worth sacrificing canon personalities for.

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

Are you the OP? In that case, then I understand where you're coming from a bit. It's not the fact that they're writing about things that you don't see happen in the canon, but the fact that it's written really badly and they don't keep it plausible?

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

Word. If you are the canon poster, I totally agree with you: seme and uke roles, twisting personalities just to meet a kink, dismissing important characters are all things that annoy me. Though writing yaoi or smut does not mean writing OOC, and I wish more people would get that.

*plans to write a multichaptered post-ending fic that will feature a m/m pairing and hints at a past one, but also plans to keep the characters involved IC.*

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

oh gosh yes!! That's exactly what I meant by twisting characters. If they're doing that it's horrible. I've seen characters having threesomes, or liking bdsm, or seducing people, or turning totally idiotic in a relationship or whatever, with NO character basis for it at all and not even an explanation or something. ( like, totally totally jealous characters, randomly thinking seducing some other guy into a random threesome is a good idea. NO. They would NOT do that. Ever. No matter how drunk.) Like... this isn't necessarily slash, but Bernard Black from Black Books. There's very little fanfiction about him, and most of it is very good, but I get really annoyed to see him (and characters like him) suddenly going completely mushy when they fall in love. Bernard DOES go all stupid and mushy and talking about sunshine when he's in love, that's seen in canon. But he's still totally got problems!!! Argh. And yeah sure, lots of times people CAN be different around the ones they're in love with, but then... mention it. Don't just make it gooey mushiness without explanation/reference as to why he/she is acting like that!

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

Word. Word word word word word. *bakes you a word pie, takes you to wordville on a word plane. . .*

Ahem. Can I friend you? The more I see of you, the cooler you look. ^_^

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

:) Totally. Though I'm afraid one day I'll say something and you'll be all '... no. Sorry. No longer cool. *deletes friendship*'
:D I'll go friend you too. :)

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

Oh, don't worry. I'm not like that. ^_^ The only reason I ever defriend/ban people is if they're stalkers/trolls. As long as you don't leak locked/filtered stuff and don't threaten me or anyone on my flist, I'm fine with you. ^_^ Though I'm sometimes a lazy poster.

Oh and want to be just friended or on the personal filter? The personal filter is for non-fandom related stuff that isn't part of a greater social cause like my Rebecca Riley activism or Blog Against Theocracy. It's not TMI or whining, it's stuff like memes and observations and whatnot that doesn't really go in "fandom" or "social activism."

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

Filter sounds good too. :) I like talking about non fandom things.
My lj is total rubbish and no one ever responds because it's full of nothing lol. Ah well! Trying to improve. :)

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

Heh. Mine used to be full of nothing with sides of TMI and wangst, then I moved to a new name (the one I have now), cleaned up the latter two and made it fandom-only with the rare side of social activism (and non-wangsty, non-wanky personal filter posts) after I got stalked and decided I never, ever, ever wanted to inspire someone to do something that horrible again. *cringe*

[longlongwaytogo.livejournal.com]

I'm totally paranoid about posting things on my LJ, which is why I generally don't. Everything I say in comms though I'd say in real life, so if people find it, that's not a concern of mine really. But my own LJ? Nope. It's why I never had a diary either.
But feel free to comment on my randomness. :)

[pretentioustfu.livejournal.com]

^_^