[ SECRET POST #1293 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1293 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

<-- breeding woopers!

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 383 secrets from Secret Submission Post #185.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - zombie poster ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It already did happen. It's like with Mary-Sues. Call someone a racist and write about how racist something is in your journal and make sure to post it to metafandom. Result? People bash that person for you. Cool, innit?

I've seen a girl bashed for writing a story about a racist and misogynist character (inspired by her dad). She was called racist herself and when she said that those are not her opinions just the character's she was called a liar and worse.

Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Man, and the thing is I agree most of the time that the fanfics that get bashed are terrible in the racial-social-whatever arena. The attitude that "WE MUST GET THEM TO APOLOGIZE AND TAKE IT DOWN AND APOLOGIZE AGAIN AND NEVER DO IT AGAIN FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE, AND ALSO APOLOGIZE AGAIN" is what disturbs and disgusts me. Shitty fanfics should be ignored, or perhaps laughed at and then ignored, no matter how much damage you think they're doing to the delicate psyches of us brown folks everywhere.

Can we use that energy and go after, like, KKK sites or something? Please?

different anon

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue that systematic, subtle racism is far more of a threat than the KKK. Mainstream society has finally realized that blatant shit like that isn't generally acceptable. It's all of the systematic, day-to-day stuff that's the problem.

Which isn't to say the KKK isn't a problem, of course. Why not deal with both?

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but the guilt everyone into agreement is not a good solution either. This whole "You're white, be ashamed" and the "You're privileged, your argument is invalid" thing people on LJ and associated sites have going on is pretty bad too. And most people don't seem to realize it.

Instead of trying to promote equality it's all about guilt.

It's like if I started blaming teenage german kids for killing my grandparents during WWII.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

To be frank, it's not about making white people feel good about the fact they benefit from systematic racism. How does one say, "Oh, yes, by the way, you're a beneficiary of this institutional racism" without pissing someone off? Yeah, people aren't personally responsible for a lot of the horrible crap that happened years ago, but white people still benefit from and live in this system that came about as a result of those actions. I just want people to be aware of that and realize that it's not always about them.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

I couldn't agree with you more, anon. I don't know what's happening on lj and similar sites lately, but over this last year it's gotten completely out of hand.

Re: Same Anon

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

I agree.
Most of the fics people say are horrid, are horrid. And I think a lot of the discussion that is sparked is very good.
But I find the approach taken to bashed fanfics a tad squicky. With overwhelming amounts of people bashing the same fic. And with the apologize over, and over, and over again part.

My approach to fanfic has always been, "95% of fanfic is crap, just skip over it and have fun looking for the gems." And I kind of like it that way. I like that some people post whatever the fuck they want. And that if it is really bad it is very easy to ignore and the audience may only consist of a handful of people.

That amount of energy spent going after things like KKK sites. Or pop-culture tropes at large (ex. "Whitey-all-mighty"). Or fail-y politics and policies. That I entirely understand. And think is very warranted.

Re: Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

The attitude that "WE MUST GET THEM TO APOLOGIZE AND TAKE IT DOWN AND APOLOGIZE AGAIN AND NEVER DO IT AGAIN FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE, AND ALSO APOLOGIZE AGAIN"

Yeah, like that ever happens. Usually they just throw up one of those "I'm sorry - sorry you're such jerks" nonpology and then get all their friends to talk about how criticizing them is just like rape.

When someone genuinely apologizes, half of fandom bends over backwards to praise them, lauding them as an example of How To Do It Right.

Re: Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, interesting how they're always "nonpologies."

You know what, though? Whatever. The fact that it's somehow become standard procedure in fandom to demand an apology and retraction for badfic is what astonishes me.

Oh, wait, but I forgot, badfic that's bad because of racial ignorance or prejudice is perpetuating an ESPECIAL evil that seeps into our brains while we sleep, or something like that. It cannot be suffered to live -- SHE WHO STANDS* WITH ME ON ST. CRISPIN'S DAY SHALL BE MY SISTER** -- ATTAAAAAAAAAAACK

* no ableist exclusivity intended
**no cissexual exclusivity intended

Re: Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, interesting how they're always "nonpologies."

No, not always. Just when the person makes a post that pretends to be an apology, but blames everyone but themselves for what happened. Like I said, when there is a real apology, a lot of people tend to accept it.

Oh, wait, but I forgot, badfic that's bad because of racial ignorance or prejudice is perpetuating an ESPECIAL evil that seeps into our brains while we sleep, or something like that.

Are you really trying to say that what we read doesn't affect how we see the world? There's a big difference between a story full of harmful stereotypes that have been used to oppress real people and someone who can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're."

Re: Same Anon

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

This so hard. I don't get the raking authors over the coals over and over again thing. I just... don't. What's that gonna do, exactly?

I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

This so hard. I don't get the raking authors over the coals over and over again thing. I just... don't. What's that gonna do, exactly?

It will make the ugly girls who didn't get asked to the prom feel special and all pretty.

Really. Because bullies aren't created in a vacuum. Somewhere along the line, the trash-talking, trend-hopping "white ally" bandwagoners were unaccepted and unpopular, which is why these 40 year old acafan shrews all seem to take such particular glee in ganging together to savage some hapless little 17 year old fanfic writer who isn't worldly enough yet to know that what she wrote was racefailing. So fine, let's tar and feather the poor dummy so she will NEVER EVER EVER dare to write anything ever again HAHAHAHA!

F*cking harpies. I bet they jerk off to the shower scene in "Carrie".

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Right. But if you think this, you must not understand that somebody racefailed!

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

It makes me laugh when I see them react similarly to Mary Sue writers.

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

So you just called people ugly, old, shrewish bullies who pick on innocent children. And I'm supposed to think that they're the cruel ones?

[(Anonymous)]

Result? People bash that person for you. Cool, innit?

Second result? Half of the people in the fandom who are even CONSIDERING writing about one or more of the non-white characters decide "fuck it, I can't guarantee that this fic won't get branded with the scarlet P for Problematic, so I'll junk it and write about the white characters instead".

And so there's even less fic about characters who aren't white.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah.

Before LJ 'discussions' (more like stone throwing, but whatever) I wrote in more diverse settings. I used to care more about actual personality of my characters more than their skincolor. It was always secondary to me, but that's soooooooo racist of me apparently. Should I have instead of Bob, the teacher who likes to do that and is like this and also happens to be black, a black man, that is named Bob and is a teacher? Why is this so racist? Seriously?

[(Anonymous)]

Should I have instead of Bob, the teacher who likes to do that and is like this and also happens to be black, a black man, that is named Bob and is a teacher?

The point that this is not not good writing is always overshadowed by I'M NOT A RACIST makes me sad.

You shouldn't do it because it's a piss poor way of constructing a character. No character just "happens" to be something. Characters are creations built from the ground up. If you want to make a black character, you need to think about how being black affects the other parts of his personality, simply because his experiences will not always be the traditional default.

People aren't saying that PoC are defined by their color. They are saying that it shapes their experiences and who they are more than just slapping a coat of paint on their skin. It means you have to stop this mumbo jumbo author bullshit of pretending that characters just magically emerge from your brain like Athena popping out of Zeus and think about the parts you're actually using.

[(Anonymous)]

I should have added that I write speculative fiction and the world I'm building does not have the same problems as this world does. My Bob has dark skin because he comes from south. No one in that world is prejudiced against him being black. So the color is not that important. He just happens, yes happens, to have dark skin.

Why should I let that character's skin color dictate his personality when it's not important?

And even if I wrote contemporary fiction, the skin color issue is not the same everywhere in the world.

I wish more people realized it. But then, they do, just not on livejournal.

this is the "P for Problematic" anon

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I was talking about fanfic rather than original writing. Specifically, fandoms with existing black and Asian characters that people always say they love (and these are great characters) but hardly ever seem to write fic about. And every time a race wank goes down, even more people swear off writing those black and Asian characters ever because of "RACEFAIL!" and "PROBLEMATIC!" and it's easier to avoid the whole thing and write the white characters instead.

And yeah, yeah, I know what comes next because we've been here before. White woman's tears, tone argument, a few fanfic writer's feelings aren't as important as fighting racism, wokka wokka wokka, I get all that. But it's also a reason why the fic gets whiter and whiter.

[firebrand164.livejournal.com]

I mostly lurk here (definitely not one of the anons you've been talking to), but I wanted to say this: I'm not a writer, but I've always agreed with the anon you replied to re: just happening to be black, and it's not an opinion I've ever thought to question. You've pointed out the problem with that argument clearly, and you're right. I need to work on changing my thinking on this issue. Thank you.

[(Anonymous)]

Link?

[childings.livejournal.com]

She was called racist herself and when she said that those are not her opinions just the character's she was called a liar and worse.

I'm just going to jump in and say that I ALSO REALLY HATE THAT. I can't believe that people are so dense that they can't see that stuff like racism, sexism, misogyny, whatever can be written in as part of a character's innate values and personality as a purposeful flaw (because good well-written characters have flaws). It doesn't necessarily reflect on the writer's own values and beliefs.

Although it does, sometimes, I think it's pretty obvious when that's the case and when it's not.

[xshotofclarityx.livejournal.com]

It's amazing (and probably genuinely sad) that so many people have a difficult time drawing the distinction between fiction and reality...since...forever.

[beandelphiki.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's pretty fail.