[ SECRET POST #1293 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1293 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

<-- breeding woopers!

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 383 secrets from Secret Submission Post #185.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - zombie poster ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Man, and the thing is I agree most of the time that the fanfics that get bashed are terrible in the racial-social-whatever arena. The attitude that "WE MUST GET THEM TO APOLOGIZE AND TAKE IT DOWN AND APOLOGIZE AGAIN AND NEVER DO IT AGAIN FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE, AND ALSO APOLOGIZE AGAIN" is what disturbs and disgusts me. Shitty fanfics should be ignored, or perhaps laughed at and then ignored, no matter how much damage you think they're doing to the delicate psyches of us brown folks everywhere.

Can we use that energy and go after, like, KKK sites or something? Please?

different anon

[(Anonymous)]

I'd argue that systematic, subtle racism is far more of a threat than the KKK. Mainstream society has finally realized that blatant shit like that isn't generally acceptable. It's all of the systematic, day-to-day stuff that's the problem.

Which isn't to say the KKK isn't a problem, of course. Why not deal with both?

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but the guilt everyone into agreement is not a good solution either. This whole "You're white, be ashamed" and the "You're privileged, your argument is invalid" thing people on LJ and associated sites have going on is pretty bad too. And most people don't seem to realize it.

Instead of trying to promote equality it's all about guilt.

It's like if I started blaming teenage german kids for killing my grandparents during WWII.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

To be frank, it's not about making white people feel good about the fact they benefit from systematic racism. How does one say, "Oh, yes, by the way, you're a beneficiary of this institutional racism" without pissing someone off? Yeah, people aren't personally responsible for a lot of the horrible crap that happened years ago, but white people still benefit from and live in this system that came about as a result of those actions. I just want people to be aware of that and realize that it's not always about them.

Re: different anon

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

"Oh, yes, by the way, you're a beneficiary of this institutional racism"
- Well that may piss someone off. I do think that is a very good way of putting it.

Re: different anon

[duae.livejournal.com]

There's a good chance they're benefiting from systematic racism too. I mean, if you're in the US and not Native American, congrats. The soil you're standing on right now used to belong to white assholes who systematically exterminated its red devil owners, because Columbus realized there was a whole series of islands across the ocean chock-full of non-whites to enslave. If it wasn't for racism, no USA as we know it.

Not that it makes anything RIGHT, but trying to play "Where would we be today without racism?" is a VERY complicated game. It's shaped the world we live in today so deeply, that reducing it to an individual level cheapens it. It's like invoking Godwin's Law over a bad fanfic review. Yes, lets compare millions dead to a random internet person going "this sux". That doesn't demean a world changing event at all!

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

But you're not doing that (not you you since I don't know who you are). You're guilting individual people who can't do anything about the way they were born the same way anyone else can't instead of fighting society and its twisted values.

There are intelligent people who don't do this and actually contribute to the discussion and the fight against insitutionalized racism, but then there are people who seem to live for "calling white people out on their privilege". And they also seem to assume that everyone either come from the USA or that race issue is the same everywhere in the world. And they ignore ethnicity of white people which is just another nail to the coffin of fail they build for themselves.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

this. just THIS.

-yet another poc, tyvm

same different anon

[(Anonymous)]

I can agree with that. Especially that last bit about the USA. I mean, I live here, so that's what I'm drawing on, but assuming the whole world is like the USA is pretty damn fail.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

At this point any dissent whatsoever has become impossible because of the "privilege" claim. You can either agree that your fic is PROBLEMATIC and kowtow and apologize profusely, or you can.... ... well, no, that's about it.

Other people are not perfect arbiters about what is problematic and what isn't. But a dialogue is impossible because (1) the privileged have no right to speak, (2) PoC have no responsibility to educate, and (3) those PoC who DO express dissenting thoughts don't speak for their race as a whole and so are discounted. So the option is to shut the fuck up, basically.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

It's not bad to say "You benefit from this and that". It's bad to say "You benefit from this and that and you should feel ashamed for that even though you have no control over it" which is what most so-called experts on LJ do.

Re: different anon

[(Anonymous)]

I couldn't agree with you more, anon. I don't know what's happening on lj and similar sites lately, but over this last year it's gotten completely out of hand.

Re: Same Anon

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

I agree.
Most of the fics people say are horrid, are horrid. And I think a lot of the discussion that is sparked is very good.
But I find the approach taken to bashed fanfics a tad squicky. With overwhelming amounts of people bashing the same fic. And with the apologize over, and over, and over again part.

My approach to fanfic has always been, "95% of fanfic is crap, just skip over it and have fun looking for the gems." And I kind of like it that way. I like that some people post whatever the fuck they want. And that if it is really bad it is very easy to ignore and the audience may only consist of a handful of people.

That amount of energy spent going after things like KKK sites. Or pop-culture tropes at large (ex. "Whitey-all-mighty"). Or fail-y politics and policies. That I entirely understand. And think is very warranted.

Re: Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

The attitude that "WE MUST GET THEM TO APOLOGIZE AND TAKE IT DOWN AND APOLOGIZE AGAIN AND NEVER DO IT AGAIN FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE, AND ALSO APOLOGIZE AGAIN"

Yeah, like that ever happens. Usually they just throw up one of those "I'm sorry - sorry you're such jerks" nonpology and then get all their friends to talk about how criticizing them is just like rape.

When someone genuinely apologizes, half of fandom bends over backwards to praise them, lauding them as an example of How To Do It Right.

Re: Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, interesting how they're always "nonpologies."

You know what, though? Whatever. The fact that it's somehow become standard procedure in fandom to demand an apology and retraction for badfic is what astonishes me.

Oh, wait, but I forgot, badfic that's bad because of racial ignorance or prejudice is perpetuating an ESPECIAL evil that seeps into our brains while we sleep, or something like that. It cannot be suffered to live -- SHE WHO STANDS* WITH ME ON ST. CRISPIN'S DAY SHALL BE MY SISTER** -- ATTAAAAAAAAAAACK

* no ableist exclusivity intended
**no cissexual exclusivity intended

Re: Same Anon

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, interesting how they're always "nonpologies."

No, not always. Just when the person makes a post that pretends to be an apology, but blames everyone but themselves for what happened. Like I said, when there is a real apology, a lot of people tend to accept it.

Oh, wait, but I forgot, badfic that's bad because of racial ignorance or prejudice is perpetuating an ESPECIAL evil that seeps into our brains while we sleep, or something like that.

Are you really trying to say that what we read doesn't affect how we see the world? There's a big difference between a story full of harmful stereotypes that have been used to oppress real people and someone who can't tell the difference between "your" and "you're."

Different anon

[(Anonymous)]

I think other anon was disagreeing with your assertion that it's always "nonpologies" that get negative reactions, which is absolutely not true.

Anon from before

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, in fact, there is no difference when the chosen reaction is a crusade to change it or end it or get it to shut up instead of flaming and ridiculing it and moving on. Because who gets to decide what's "problematic"? And when does it become en vogue to declare that rape fantasy porn fics oppress real rape victims and perpetuate actual rape, or that hyperviolent fiction causes violence? (It doesn't.)

The attitude that "what we read affects how we see the world," to the extent that YOU don't have responsibility over what you choose to read -- can't click the back button and ignore a shitty author with a shitty worldview -- is dangerous ground. I understand fandom dogpiling and public flogging is not actual legislation of censorship, but the mentality behind it is the same (get rid of the "harmful" media), so people who participate in it disgust me.

Re: Same Anon

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

This so hard. I don't get the raking authors over the coals over and over again thing. I just... don't. What's that gonna do, exactly?

I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

This so hard. I don't get the raking authors over the coals over and over again thing. I just... don't. What's that gonna do, exactly?

It will make the ugly girls who didn't get asked to the prom feel special and all pretty.

Really. Because bullies aren't created in a vacuum. Somewhere along the line, the trash-talking, trend-hopping "white ally" bandwagoners were unaccepted and unpopular, which is why these 40 year old acafan shrews all seem to take such particular glee in ganging together to savage some hapless little 17 year old fanfic writer who isn't worldly enough yet to know that what she wrote was racefailing. So fine, let's tar and feather the poor dummy so she will NEVER EVER EVER dare to write anything ever again HAHAHAHA!

F*cking harpies. I bet they jerk off to the shower scene in "Carrie".

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[fierceawakening.livejournal.com]

Right. But if you think this, you must not understand that somebody racefailed!

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

That's the sad part. :( I wish there was some common sense, proportion and moderation in fandom. Someone who writes a racefailing fic does NOT deserve to be metafandomed, linkspammed, and receive 300 comments from total strangers telling her how she deserves to DIAF. She doesn't deserve to be run out of fandom or called a loser, a racist, a human failure and a waste of skin.

My only conclusion is that some people are sadists who think that mental abuse is fun and have just found a neat and blameless way to engage in it. Lucky, lucky them.

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

It makes me laugh when I see them react similarly to Mary Sue writers.

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

So you just called people ugly, old, shrewish bullies who pick on innocent children. And I'm supposed to think that they're the cruel ones?

Re: I'll call myself anon #zed here...different from above

[(Anonymous)]

If you think these white-ally fandom hags truly give a shit about PoC instead of just creaming themselves over the nasty fun of having fandom carte blanche to gang-bash whomever they decide to target next, you're even more gullible than this comment makes you out to be.