fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1436 ]

[ SECRET POST #1436 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1436 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #205.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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This secret is thinly disguised slut-shaming, IMO. Implying that enjoying kinky sex is a bad thing/lessens the characters? Please.

Ugh, this.

Not all characters enjoy the sex they are forced to have in kink memes. And it sometimes has nothing to do with their characters.

Hmm, I assume the secret maker was not calling rape victims 'whores'. But you make your own assumptions, whatever.

And you're right, it has nothing to do with the characters. Either way. It's not disrespectful to have a character enjoy bondage, any more than it's disrespectful to make them asexual, assuming there's nothing in canon to contradict either thing.

They weren't saying characters were whores, as far as I understood they meant the fandom was "using them as whores" as in treating them as such. Using them for soulless sexual satisfaction or something of that sort.
And I'm forced to disagree on your second point, because I'm not tolerant. Forcing my fav character to enjoy for example scat would be degrading them, thank you very much.

Oh, I'm sorry. I wouldn't have engaged with you at all if I'd realized you were a fetish-shaming bitch. My bad.

Not really, some fetishes are quite fine. But not fetishes are equal.

No, you don't get to pick and choose which (consensual) fetishes you get to accept and still deny that you're fetish-shaming.

Whether or not you find scat gross does not diminish its legitimacy. Someone who writes about your favorite character enjoying scat is doing it because that someone likes scat, and sees it as exciting and arousing. Them writing that fic is not disrespect.

Someone writing a fic about a character they hate performing a fetish that the author themselves finds wrong or gross or unappealing, that is disrespectful. Someone applying their own fetish, whatever it may be, to a character they like, is not wrong or disrespectful or any of the horrible things that intolerant bitches like you want them to think it is.

Okay. Let's imagine the following situation. (I know characters are fictional, the situation is like this for the sake of simplicity). You like scat. You see it as exciting. But then you tell everyone in college that X enjoys scat. How do you think, what will happen to X's reputation? You cannot be unaware of the fact that most people consider scat to be gross and disgusting. Thus X will be considered a person who enjoys gross and disgusting stuff.

Here the same. It's not disrespectful to imagine your favorite character enjoying the same things you enjoy, but by making them do it "in public", as in fanfiction or fanart, you make the rest of the fandom see them as gross or weird or whatever.

Except:

A) They ARE fictional, and thus have no reputation to ruin. And,

B) Unless a fanfic writer attempts to pass their works off as canon and written by the original source material's author, people who read a weird, kinky fic about a character do NOT see the character as a freaky fetishist. They see the WRITER as such. That's the writer's choice, and his or her burden to bear. If I write about a character I like having a daddy fetish, people who object to the kink don't then go back to the source material and go "Oh god gross, X wants Y to call him 'daddy' in bed", they think, "Oh gross, Anon likes it when Y calls X 'daddy' in bed".

The only reason to let fan interpretation of canon get in the way of your own views is if you believe that the alternate interpretation fits the character somehow. If you don't think character X would like a certain kink, seeing someone else assert their belief to the contrary shouldn't make you think that character X is now suddenly different.

Unless there's someone out there who's dim enough to believe that fanfiction changes canon in any way, there is no disrespect happening when someone makes their character enjoy their favorite kink, and dares to share their dirty, shameful kink in public.

Only I know a lot of people who admitted--even here at F!S--that reading a lot of nasty fic about their favorite chatacter skewers their perception somehow. Yes, it's their own problem, and it's a thing of emotions, not logic. But it goes to show that there is such a thing as a 'reputation' of a fictional character, meaning their public image, the way they are perceived by the fandom.

Not to mention the cases in which a character isn't just given some kink but also butchered into complete OOC by that.

It's still disrespect. It's like gossip. You know gossip isn't true to "canon", it doesn't make it any less gross.

What you are talking about is disrespect towards fans, not towards characters. Fictional characters are only what everyone sees them as. They do not have feelings the way real people do; they have the ideas of their creators. They can't experience shame or embarrassment unless their creator makes them do it. A character does not have the capacity to care what his fans feel about him.

And yes, it is disrespectful towards the FANDOM to write a strange kink and not properly warn for it, and force or trick people into reading it when they would otherwise avoid it. That's not cool, especially if there are people reading it who are easily influenced and will find it difficult to see that character the way they used to. Not acknowledging every fan's right to read what they prefer to read IS disrespectful. To the fans.

But writing your own kink and giving fair warning to the readers, that is not disrespectful to anyone. If someone sees warnings (as most kink memes have, usually right in the subject line of the prompt) and reads the fic anyway, they have no basis to cry foul.

If something makes you uncomfortable, that feeling is valid. Accusing the author of a kinky fic of disrespecting the characters is not. Your discomfort is not a universal truth. Don't hide behind supercilious accusations of canon compliance. Authors are more likely to respect your feelings if you respect theirs. Just be honest.

I love you so much for this.

I want to have your ebabies.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2010-12-10 21:27 (UTC) - Expand

Suuuure and when some guy comments on how he'd like to screw that bitch into the mattress so that her huge milk factories are jiggling 'cause she's such a dirty whore... this guy really appreciates her personality and respects her. That's why he treats her like this and talks about her like this.
That's how it looks.

It's not the characters enjoying sex. It's the fandom.

It's not the characters enjoying sex. It's the fandom.

In the vast majority of fanfiction, the characters ARE enjoying the sex. Just because the fandom enjoys it too doesn't make it disrespectful or wrong in any way. The OP of this secret is just trying to make people feel bad for enjoying sexual fantasies, and is disgusted that their precious characters are being subjected to the same impure ideas.

In the vast majority of fanfiction, the characters are enjoying the sex only because the fic author made it so. Not because it's IC or something. They are nothing but fodder for sexual fantasies, their true personalities are barely recognizable. In fact they often look like parodies of themselves, the way a nurse in a porn movie looks not quite like a real one.

Who the hell says what sexual proclivities are in or out of character? Unless you have canon evidence that states that a character is NOT into a particular practice, you have NO way of knowing what they like. Honestly. The way people present themselves in their work and social lives has nothing to do with what they enjoy in the bedroom.

At work, I'm the superior to a dozen people; I dress in suits, I have friends, I go to office parties, I'm respectable. At home, I have the largest collection of bizarre sex toys I've ever personally seen and enjoy orgasm denial and spanking.

You cannot say with authority that the character who is a doctor and is charming and friendly at work, does not enjoy any number of bizarre kinks and fetishes when he gets home. Do not force your own personal head canon on other people just because theirs makes you uncomfortable. We're all interpreting here, even you.

I can say with authority, for example, that someone who is a virgin princess in canon and is madly in love with another character (again, in canon) - is definitely not going to have consensual fetish sex with three other guys. Or that an extremely proud and powerful mage who kills people for tiny disrespect in front of his person is not going to sell his body for small change and get off on humiliation.
Not everyone hides their sexual life like you describe. For some people, their sexual life is "in sync" with their behaviour and outside personality. Besides, statistically, most people do not actually have any bizarre kinks outside of fantasies.

So when we take some character and make him possess our kink, whatever that kink is, that's nothing but wishful thinking and should be regarded as such. Otherwise it becomes absurd, same as saying "no one said there is no vampires and cowboys in this Sci-Fi world, thus vampires and cowboys are totally possible and believable here".

Besides, some characters do have sexual lives in canon. In my current canon the erotic scenes are pretty much NC-17 so you can actually see what the character likes with your own eyes.

No, some people are completely open about their sex lives. Some people have vanilla sex and nothing else. My point is NOT that everyone in the world has a kinky sex life, it is that you have NO WAY of knowing who does and does not unless you have a window into their bedroom.

And yes, some characters do have sex lives in canon. Take Queer as Folk, for example. In canon (if I recall correctly; it's been a while since I've rewatched he series) Brian bottomed to Justin (who are a canon couple) a grand total of one time, that we know of, and outright refused to let it happen any other time. So theoretically, a writer who writes Brian as the bottom the majority of the time is not exactly writing him IC. Does that mean it's disrespectful to write a fic where they decide to change their dynamic and let Justin become the dominant half of their relationship? It's far-fetched, certainly, but is the writer wrong for wanting to explore it?

Is it disrespectful to take a character who has stated his or her heterosexuality in canon, and put them in a slash pairing? That's certainly not in character, by your definition.

Fictional characters are not sacred entities. They were created and shared for entertainment. If you condone one kind of fanwork, you can't dismiss another by calling it disrespectful. Using a fictional character for your own masturbation fodder? How is that different than reading or writing a steampunk AU of a modern medical drama? That's for your own personal, selfish enjoyment, and deviates significantly from canon. Why is it suddenly different when the enjoyment involves sexual gratification?

And my point was that from the purely statistical point of view it's much more likely that our character does not (or would not) have whatever bizarre kink we want them to have, simply because the statistical percentage is against it. Kinks aren't called kinks because they are widely popular.

Well, topping and bottoming, unless we are talking hard BDSM, is not a 'kink', it's just a position. Same goes for sexual orientation. But if you take a character who openly stated they are not in any way gay or bi or straight, or a character who did say they'd never ever top or bottom - yes, it's disrespectful, because it means you don't care for the character in any way, they are nothing but your personal sex toy.

There is a character in one of my fandoms, for example, who sold his body. Once. To another man. He did it for the sake of saving lives, more than one life actually. It is explicitly shown that he hated every moment of it, he forced himself to endure it, it wounded his pride, he was so disgusted he ended up killing the man he slept with (later).
It is in no way in-character or acceptable or respectable to write porny fics about him whoring himself out cheerfully in deeply fetishized ways.

It is different because it is pure objectification. There is no art in it.

it means you don't care for the character in any way

In ANY WAY? Jesus Christ, you sound like a fucking bitch.

I'm actually too angry to properly reply to any of this. Your snotty superiority is showing through more and more with every reply. You have fun coming up with another haughty reply and basking in your knowledge that you are the one true fan. I'm done.

I don't sound like a bitch, I am a bitch. Not sounding like one would be out of character. XD

why are you even reading these things if you feel so strongly about it?

You don't have to read them, just watch the descriptions of the fics popping up in the community.

I'm starting to wonder if the whole real/fictional barrier is a little wobbly for you.

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