[ SECRET POST #1534 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1534 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #219.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ishosophy.livejournal.com]

How about when he bitches as Merrill as she's on the floor sobbing, or asking what Fenris sees in Hawke when he's right there. OR WORST YET, using his mother's death as means to push he propaganda? Where's my punch-time-event, Bioware? :c

I think they sharked us what with only having a year to make the damn thing.

OK THREAD IS SORT OF FULL OF SPOILERS NOW

[case]

or the "you hypocrite, your sister is a mage!" line at the worst possible companion quest time ever

hate

[ishosophy.livejournal.com]

Who does that? Really. Its just THERE WAS NO WAY HE COULD HAVE KNOWN?? WHAT THE HELL

[case]

oh lol your whole world is falling apart? COOL STORY BRO but look this one thing you didn't even know about made you a hypocrite! I win!

I think I literally did a "you DIDN'T" at that line

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I would have KILLED for a "punch Anders in the fucking face" option during the party banter when he made it clear how glad he was Fenris dumped my ass. I was like, fucking EXCUSE me? I'm right here you know!

[case]

Did you ever take him along to Merrill and Fenris's Act 3 companion quests? IF NOT, DO IT

And all the party banter where he condemns Merrill for being a blood mage and using a spirit even though he has Justice and ahegkjf ):

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't, he was such a fucking asshole I stopped using him at all.

Now I've got to do this.

[case]

Do it, Fenris's Act 3 quest especially! I think you'll rage really hard

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Aye-aye, Captain!

Although I'll probably explode.

I just don't know when Anders got so damned judgmental. I mean, he also approached me about romancing Fenris, and I admitted it wasn't going so well, and that got me Frendship points? Dickish!

[case]

I assume it happened when he and Justice merged! Except you don't see much of it getting actually developed or anything so it seriously sounds like it's out of nowhere ):

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Well, Anders' codex actually helps a lot, I think, except I rather resent being expected to read the codex. The codex is supplementary information; I should be able to have a fulfilling, enriching experience without it. After all, it's... like, infodumping. A lot of people, myself included, aren't usually fans of sheer exposition.

Also, I wish Justice had given a damn about anything EXCEPT mages. Like, Anders got a m/m romance in his backstory, so maybe he and Justice could have decided to, like, not harass me about mine? Alas.

[case]

He only gets that if your Hawke is male, if your Hawke is female the Karl thing is never mentioned and he's been straight all along or something (I have no idea why they thought "gay version/straight version" was a good idea)

...but now that I think about it yeah, what the heck is Justice doing not getting ragey at - idk, SLAVERY? the treatment of refugees? Anders/Justice literally states in party banter that he might enjoy living in Tevinter and it's like ... really? Once you hit Act 3 he just turns completely single-note and it's terrible

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Really? Haha, weird. I didn't know that, since I haven't gotten that far in my female Hawke playthrough. Well, technically I'm far enough, but I haven't gone back to see him yet, since not only does he annoy me, I have to trudge all the way back to the far-away exit to leave. Anyway, woosh, I have to say, that's a can of worms all right. I was really fond of the idea of them all being bisexual in theory, except I thought it was an incredibly strange choice for Anders, since he didn't rub me that way in DA:A. At least they didn't try to pin it down to the influence of Justice or something in DA2. That would have been a mess.

But man, Justice in DA:A was... Justice-y about everything. Like, I get that he's Vengeance now, but I would have liked to see some vengeance against some of the non-mage-related evils which plagued the place. As it stood, it came off as almost petty instead of tragic, which was a shame. I thought his arc would involve a lot more of Justice showing up when bad things happened in general. To tell you the truth, I wish Justice had been a separate character who periodically replaced Anders (in personality/dialogue alone) for a few quests or something. As it stood, I felt a character got reduced to... a vague angst well?

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

By the way, maybe you would know, is there a community where sensible people are discussing these sorts of things? Because I'd be pretty keen on some civil discussion of what I did and didn't like about the writing, but it's rough because I only know of the official forums and... and yeah. They're not really my scene.

[case]

No idea, sorry ): I would be totally up for reading tl;dr about it though

[quality-rachni.livejournal.com]

swooping_is_bad is the dragon age comm for lj, I'm sure you'd find someone there to talk about these themes with.

[case]

If they'd shown some of Anders actually struggling with Justice and realizing that he's going too far with some of his Vengeance stuff - other than that one quest, it would probably have worked. Like you see him angsting FOREVER about that ONE LITTLE GIRL - and it's like okay but what are you going to DO about it to try and stop Vengeance from taking over again? And Anders's reply seems to be nothing, he's not going to do anything about it at all (except LIE TO EVERYONE while pretending he will, and then go do even worse things).

It's just like /smashes head into wall COME ON he's not even trying he's just angsting for the hell of it

He's necessary for the plot, yeah, but he could've been made so much more sympathetic and they just... didn't do it

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Yeah, seriously, it fell really flat. I felt like it was starting to go somewhere with his almost killing a screaming innocent quest, but I guess he decided to resort to whining about it for a while and then writing it off. Maybe if we'd simply gotten a foreboding hint that he'd consciously written it off (instead of the authors just sort of dropping it) then that would have worked. Like if you console him and eventually he's like "... you're right. It's just one person. Our causes are more important than that." That might also have PREPPED me for what he was going to DO in Act 3. I know you get the opportunity for a little worse than a slap, but I could have gone for an insta-slap right then for just how much he misled me. Yeah, I knew something bad was going to go down when he wanted me to do a quest he wouldn't explain, but I thought that at the very worst it would be an assassination or something. If anything, it was almost more enraging because he was so mopey about it. Don't mope when I'm angry, dammit! That would have been an awesome time to bring out Vengeance talking, too. Like, if Vengeance got the parting words, perhaps.


And if you really want to read some of my opinions of the writing, that's so sweet! I'll do my best and try to keep it a reasonable length. Do be aware that I had TONS of fun with this game and liked a lot of the changes, so this isn't meant as a lambasting.

---
GENERAL PLOT:

Act 1: Could have used a little bit more background info before we got started, even though I played DAO. I appreciated that they didn't make us wait around to get to the action, but maybe they could have had the false beginning, THEN go back to peaceful-but-tense Lothering, so you'd have time to get to know your family before the evacuation (because seriously, what was Carver/Bethany supposed to mean to me by then?). Even just a conversation or two about what to take and what to leave, or how they felt about losing their home, would have gone a long way with me.

After that though, I actually really liked part I. You could feel all the plot threads begin to rear their heads. Also, you felt like a normal guy with a set goal, striving to do something important for your family. It reminded me of some of the better DAO origins that way. Also, the cast introductions at this point were tons of fun. Don't know how I feel about Flemeth just randomly taking off though. She would have been a neat quest-giver and a better reason to visit Sundermount from time to time.

Act 2: Should have been Act 3, and vice versa. I felt it came in absolutely the wrong order. You'd have to change Isabela's role, of course, but maybe if you did it properly, you could end Act 3 without violence (or with different violence, as opposed to getting railroaded through the final boss battles). Also, maybe your decision here could have affected the city in a meaningful way, as part of the atmosphere of what was to come. (Like, a city run by one versus the other where the qunari are involved.)

[...]

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Act 3: Should have been resolving the qunari problem. As for the Act 3 we got, .... uh. It just felt incredibly underdeveloped. And Anders. God. I don't even know what to say about that. Also, the companion quests got kind of weak. Sure, Anders got his and everything, but I felt the ones for Varric, Fenris, and Aveline were disappointing, which is a shame because those were definitely my three favorite characters.

ENDING: The fact that you don't get the equivalent of the post-coronation scene in DAO is, I think, one of the biggest failings of this game. I wanted a bit more closure, even if it's just a few goodbyes. One last chance to solidify/break a romance, characterize a friendship, what have you. At the very, very least there should have been one last discussion with Varric, and ideally the results of that conversation should have impacted the conclusion to Varric's tale. (Even choosing one of a list of pieces of advice from Hawke to Varric. That alone would have been cool.) Also, disappearing into the wilds? Not only did this not really make sense and seem unnecessary, but a better option would be to have the reason for the disappearance be specific to the companion who went with you (maybe just "left" if Hawke didn't have anyone else somehow.) Like, "He went off to visit the Ferelden Dalish with Merril" or "she and Isabela went off sailing". Varric could end with, "Of course, we never expected it'd be this long... in fact, we don't even know if that's where s/he really went." That would have been more satisfying to me. Still just dialogue, so it shouldn't have been that hard to include.

---

NEXT POST: Companion thoughts (the fun stuff)!

Oh my god this is so long, I'm sorry!

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Companions/characters:

Aveline: Aveline is so wonderful that I have a difficult time not gushing. She's a fantastic female character. She's intelligent, fun, wise, grounded, competent, but still flawed. She has a bit of a temper, she's stubborn, and she can even be a little condescending. I saw her as an older sister type. (One reason I was glad she wasn't romanceable. Also it was nice to have someone you could flirt with but who really wasn't into you!) She is a sexual being, but not in an obnoxious, in-your-face way. She's also the best example of a character who grew ALONGSIDE Hawke. When you went to visit her, you felt she was continuing her life even when you weren't there. She remarried, got a better job, cleaned up the city, trained new guards, etc. etc. She's the only companion where I really felt the years pass, and for the better. She had a splendid arc. Also, I know some people hate it, but I thought her main companion quest was cute and in-character. She was off her game for a while, and you helped her succeed regardless--by showing her that being forthright wasn't a sin. I also think she's pretty in a unique, realistic way that I thoroughly appreciated. I was utterly touched when she stood by me in the end (not that I expected otherwise at that point).

Carver: He's gotten a lot of hate, but I think they did a good job with him. He's obviously living in his older sibling's shadow, his twin died, he feels lost and alone and inferior, and he's been thrust into a terrible situation (same as you, but a terrible situation nonetheless). I didn't sympathize with him that much, but I understood where he was coming from, if that makes any sense. Not a character I "liked", but I thought his writing was solid. I was glad we didn't see too much of him either way. He was rather redundant, considering the significantly better warriors you could get, and a bit one-note. I see him as a side character as much as anything.

Bethany: There's not much to say about her! She's... nice. Pleasant. Supportive. I think it was nice of Bioware to throw us an easy Friendship character, since I know some people (like me) were worried at the beginning because our companions kept hanging around the "neutral" area of the Friendship/Rivalry meter. Bethany was sort of proof that Friendship could be done and a hint of what it might give you. She's benign. I didn't particularly like her or dislike her. I was nice to her though, so maybe she has some better/worse dialogue if you are mean.

[...]

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Isabela: Unfortunately, I can't say too much about her, because she... um... didn't stick around in the only playthrough I've completed thus far. Sure, she was selfish and a little too innuendo-laden, but I have to admit, I was expecting something much worse. I thought she still had some nice touches that made her come across as an individual and she ended up a bit interesting. However, she was still too one-note and pandering, I thought. (For example, the lack of pants was jarring and annoying.) I did like that she wasn't super-skinny, though. She had real thighs, calves, and a waist! Her quest though, well, that got to be a problem. I really couldn't justify siding with her whatsoever. (Funny thing: my favorite thing about Aveline is that she vandalizes your house.) I have to admit, my biggest gripe is that she felt out-of-place in the game. I just could never fully understand why I was toting around a pirate. She had some awesome party banter with Aveline, though, and helped balance Aveline out. (I worry that if they hadn't had a character like her, a lot of the things I loved about Aveline would have been compromised.) All in all, an adequate addition, no strong feelings either way.

Merril: Augh. Didn't like Merril. I liked the core idea of her arc, and it had a strong theme at its center (about sacrifice and who can/will pay it, for what, when, how, etc.), but it just wasn't realized well. Also, some of her "cutesy" moments made her seem so dense, I felt weird toting her around. Also, I felt her companion quests were leading up to something far better than we got. I did like the conversation after giving her the ring, though, because we got a lot of information ABOUT the DA world without having to read a Codex. It felt like infodumping, a bit, but in a natural way that added flavor to the world around her. I had issues with her blood magic use, though, and how she reacted to events in the world with this fact in mind. And the fact that you can romance her? Creepy, honestly. She acted way too much like a kid.

Also, WARNING: ELFWHINING: I thought she looked odd. All the elves did. I just wasn't a fan of the Roman noses and big eyes, not at all. I would have been fine with it on some, or very aquiline noses on them, but the complete lack of brow definition didn't sit well with me. This was ESPECIALLY jarring when Zevran showed up, because... you KNEW what he was supposed to look like!

[...]

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Anders: I don't know if there's anything to say about Anders that I haven't already. Awful awful awful awful awful. There were so many ways to have made him passable, even a great character, but... nope. A few limp references to his cat, some vague (and BROKEN) references to my adventures in DA:A and DAO. Also, he fucking fantasy terrorist'd me! How are you supposed to like a guy after that? His banter is NOTHING but him whining or being a total fucking ASSHOLE. (This is not the Anders I knew!) And a hypocrite. Oh my god. Also, his stupid hovel made it so obvious that he was just asking for trouble. Furthermore, I never felt any development from him. I wish he'd become more gaunt-looking, pale-skinned, maybe with darker-ringed eyes as the time went forward. That would have sold the impression, I think, of a man spiraling into madness as opposed to merely douchebaggery. He had a lot of openings to be tragic, but instead I found him grossly irritating. And again, I could not BELIEVE what a shit he would be to your friends. I was glad not all the companions were perfect buddy-buddies, but this was inexcusable. I didn't even like Merril and I felt awful whenever he talked to her. Same to Fenris. Man. Also, Justice was a horrible underutilized aspect of his character. There easily could have been more content, but instead we got vague snippets that didn't hold together properly. Also his VA made him sound really... patronizing at times. Don't know if that was writing or the VA's interpretation, but it made dragging him around a chore.




Sebastian: I pre-ordered waaaay early, so I got him for free. Unfortunately, I hated this prick so bad I tried to forget he existed. Aveline gets a super amazing burn on him though, haha. I mostly thought he was a whiner and a waffle. Nothing about him interested me or made me sympathize with him. He seemed totally wooden and also kind of pushy in party dialogue. Not interesting pushy, either, just... argh, just annoying. Another character where I'd have killed for some slapping opportunities. I don't know if his romance makes him any better. I thought he was a prick and dully, dully written. Also his companion quests with Leliana made the game make a lot more sense (even if the quests themselves were crap) so I don't know if he was originally supposed to be in it and transformed into DLC or what. The one thing I like is he'll never try to challenge you outright. Apparently if he hates you at the end, he retreats to "gather an army." At least he isn't totally stupid.

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Last companion post! Saved two of my favorites for last (Aveline's tied for favorite but I don't feel as inclined to rant about her.) Oh my god when did I write an essay....

Varric: I thought Varric would be "that character" that the writer thought was soooo witty and edgy and cool, but who was in reality just another Oghren, spouting fart and dick jobes nonstop in a juvenile attempt at humor. I was totally and unabashedly wrong about this. He's got the strongest writing in this game by a landslide. Charming characters are always difficult to write, and Varric is just so endearing, it's hard to put to words. He didn't have a single line of dialogue that made me roll my eyes or sigh in disgust. All of his party banter is equally amusing. Yet, despite being witty, he also has a legitimately earnest core. His relationship to his brother had a lot of heart. He felt like a true friend to Hawke. (His personal quest when you first enter the house is GOLDEN, and a great use of the framed narrative.) His Friendship/Rivalry consequences felt CONSISTENT. (That's its own rant....) With Varric, you got out what you put in. If you talked with him, joked with him, listened to him--anything--he made himself worthy of your time. Varric is the only character who NEVER left my party once I had acquired him. Calling on him to lie for you was also perfect--the lies always fit and were delivered masterfully. I think Varric's writing might have been the best thing about the entire game.

Fenris: Fenris is difficult for me to talk about because I LOVE him and yet I admit he's not splendidly written. He has some great moments and some head-desk worthy moments. I think he suffers a lot from having his absolute worst conversations at the beginning, when you first meet. His story is extremely predictable--not a single event took me by surprise (I actually felt smugly satisfied with how perfectly I saw everything in advance). However, he was anti-mage, and they had to be careful how they were going to handle that character, because most players probably went pro-mage, and in fact probably a lot of people PLAYED mages, so it was important that he remain likable. He's obviously the character for girls (guilty as charged) and plays off of some popular cliches. However, he is much better than I had anticipated. He's not too angsty during things like party banter, and he's an absolute goddamned badass when you call on him in conversations. He also has the best Rivalry path (in my experience thus far) since it's not "oh grrr I hate you, you stupid asshole, grrr", it's more like smug but understanding disagreement. More of an "I'm going to say 'I told you so'" type. If you're after a dark-tinged girly sentimental romance, he gives it to you, which (as much as I'd love to purport otherwise) suited me embarrassingly well. My biggest gripe is HOLY SHIT FENRIS, CLEAN YOUR FUCKING HOUSE, YOU DRUNK SADSACK! It's six years later and he hasn't even dragged the corpses out! He is the WORST character when it comes to never doing a damn thing or making ANY progress without Hawke holding his hand. Compare to Aveline. God damn.

Anyway, of course he's also voiced by Gidgeon Emery, soooo... <3.

[shinshokuinsane.livejournal.com]

Okay, I reloaded an old save to get to the final Fenris quest only this time with Anders along.



FAIEUHTRAUWEHTFIHGIFGNLOGOWRHGOLFBGKSDJNFSDKFNLSDFGNEIOTHSOIHGFDJNFOBDGFOBHHHRRNRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNRALITHWEHTARTHRWOIHTREIOHTRITAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I CANNOT.

EVEN.

EXPRESS. MY RAGE.



UNREAL.

[greatbriton.livejournal.com]

Justice only comes out and replaces Anders completely if you take him into the Fade Quest.