fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1757 ]

[ SECRET POST #1757 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1757 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 119 secrets from Secret Submission Post #.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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Uh, it's not just Japan that does it, you know, and it's a bit dismissive of the issue to say it's just "lol Japan and its weirdness" as if people in other countries are guiltless.

It is, however, extremely prevalent and deeply annoying here.

I'm Japanese, if it helps. I know it sounds like I'm being defensive of my country but it's not that, I know they're bad about it and a whole bunch of other things. But other countries are also bad about it- just not as openly- and pinning all the blame on Japan is... overlooking a lot of things and making it into a "lol Japan" joke which cheapens the issue as well.

You have to admit that the ~vogue~ here for Nazi symbolism has really opened up the doors for the whole "It's fashionable now! it doesn't MEAN anything" argument, however, no?

Sure, nowhere have I denied that Japan is at fault.

I'm only pointing out that there are others at fault besides Japan, and to pin the blame on Japan and only Japan is a bit blind and unfair. It would exist whether or not Japan existed; plenty of Nazi fetishism comes from western countries like the USA and UK.

Now you're definitely coming across as defensive. There's way more Nazi fetish crap in the mainstream here than there is in the US, and way fewer instances of it getting smacked the hell down. If a cartoonist in the US tried to draw a popular character in Nazi regalia, there would be a shitstorm. The last instance of it in the UK I can think of was Prince Harry, and he was raked over the coals for it. In Japan, it goes without mention every day.

Please don't read things into my words that aren't there. Nowhere did I say that all countries are equally at fault. Japan is way worse than others, obviously.

That doesn't mean they're the sole country at fault, like mekkio is making them out to be.

It would exist whether or not Japan existed; plenty of Nazi fetishism comes from western countries like the USA and UK.

implies that western countries are on a par with Japan when it comes to Nazi bullshit. They're not.

It doesn't, though. I didn't say it would exist on the same level or be as prevalent. But would it exist at all? Yes.

"Plenty," however, does. How much is plenty, exactly?

By plenty I meant "enough to have a significant enough presence to be an issue, with or without Japan," which I believe is true. Would it be as much? Nope. But enough to be an issue? Yes.

Stop all of Japan from producing any Nazi fetishist media, and it would still exist in non-insignificant quantities.

I come from the US and have never seen any Nazi symbolism or imagery there except as used by movie bad guys and, like, the occasional fetish porn thing or something.

In Japan, I literally see it basically every week. Stop Japan from producing Nazi fetish media and it would go a long-ass way.

Yes, there are other countries. Yes, there are other countries where it's more harmful (in Italy, it's actually anti-Semitic, as opposed to Japan where it's just ignorant as hell). That doesn't mean Japan isn't responsible for a lot of -- maybe even most of -- the cool, stylish Nazi imagery thing as it exists right now.

...so you're arguing with me to agree with me? I'm confused at what you're disagreeing with here, because you basically said what I said.

Japan is responsible for a lot. It's not responsible for all.

Therefore, blaming only Japan for it is rather simplifying the issue.

Which part of that did you disagree with?

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ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com - 2011-10-26 01:20 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2011-10-26 01:21 (UTC) - Expand

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mekkio.livejournal.com - 2011-10-26 01:59 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2011-10-26 02:07 (UTC) - Expand

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type89.livejournal.com - 2011-10-26 05:43 (UTC) - Expand

Yes, you're right, Nazi fetishism isn't exclusive to Japan. Hell, both the US and Europe can even boast a movie genre known as Nazisploitation. However, in comparison to Japan, this is a)very rare, b)pretty much underground and/or "cult" and c)targeted towards a very limited audience. That is really a huge difference. Although you're also right in saying that going "lol Japan" isn't exactly helpful.

I think the issue may lie in the difference between "knowing" and "feeling". To turn it around, I "know" perfectly well what the Japanese army did during WWII, but I still think some of their uniforms look really attractive, although I don't fetishize them. German WWII uniforms, on the other hand? Yes, I can appreciate the design, but it's a big pile of DONOTWANT, because I grew up between the ruins of a ghetto and a former Gestapo torture block. So, you know. Different sensitivity is all.

Nowhere did I say all countries were equally to blame. My only point here was that Japan is not the only one to blame and other countries' participation in this shouldn't be overlooked like this in a "lol Japan" way.

I think it more of an Asia thing. There is a poor education about the whole nazi movement, so you see it more in that part of the world.

Some high school in Singapore (I think) just had a nazi parade that drew lots of negative international attention.

Admittedly, I live in Japan so I've only experienced it here. It pisses me right the fuck off, though. I had a huge fight with a coworker about it a few weeks back. :/

Well yeah, but so did Prince Harry. And a Chinese actress wore a dress made out of the Imperial Japanese flag.

In other words, some people who should know better not always do. Regardless of the continent.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-28/asia/world_asia_thailand-nazi-parade_1_nazi-uniforms-nazi-symbols-nazi-themed?_s=PM:ASIA

It was Thailand, not Singapore, please do your research, googling is not hard :|

Also uh, I wouldn't want to generalise and say things like 'poor education about the whole Nazi movement' that simply, if I were you, without at least looking at the history syllabus in various schools in that region- speaking here as someone actually from Southeast Asia who took History in highschool, I can tell you that we did cover WWII in a fair amount of depth, concentrating equally on the European and Pacific theatres of war.

Even I wouldn't want to say how much other people in different countries know, though, because frankly I know just as much about the syllabus in Laos as I do about how history is thought in some place like Yugoslavia. Of course it's justifiable to say that different places would emphasize- or de-emphasize- certain issues which are deemed politically sensitive (the Nanking Massacre and the Vietnam War are two major examples but I can go on), but 'there is a poor education about the whole nazi movement' isn't, strictly speaking, correct at all.

taught, not thought, fuck I can't spell today

But- honestly, I really don't think something like that would fly in some parts of Asia, but at the same time I really don't want to generalise about things like 'oh everyone in this place has these sorts of attitudes'.

Speaking of generalisations, though, there ARE going to be ignorant people everywhere, this much, if nothing else, is likely to be a constant no matter what country you're in. The number of them and how obvious they are and what they can get away with will differ, yes, but I don't think you can really blame a whole country or a whole region for something like that without examining more specific socio-cultural as well as political factors that are involved.

Forced to face why I did not Google something so simple when I would have for a post or forum discussion...It is F!S, the end of the day, and I was lazy. I actually feel pretty damn embarrassed for it too.

I admit I haven't looked at a school syllabus outside of Japan, but a study of media shows some odd patterns of glorification of Nazism. (I kind of want to run a serious study of this now. I worked on a project that looked at the depiction of the Nanking Massacre in other parts of the world, and that was really surprising.) It is unfair to generalize ALL of Asia in this. Some get more of their media exported that others, and censorship of what is exported is more extreme in some places.

My comment really stems from what I started reading after the Nazi-themed parade. I read all this, admittedly, on the internet, but from news-type sources. In short, they were saying the negativity and pain attached to the nazi's of WWII wasn't really taught. It could simply be a case of "emphasize- or de-emphasize- certain issues which are deemed politically sensitive," but it seems to do it to the determent of learning in depth. It would explain the less than internationally sensitive actions.

I'm going to go look for links now.

> I admit I haven't looked at a school syllabus outside of Japan, but a study of media shows some odd patterns of glorification of Nazism.

You might want to! I can tell you that in Southeast Asia, at least, there is going to be a difference between what countries teach and which colonial power they were under the control of, as well as their own policies. Vietnam, for instance, will teach the Second Indochinese War in a very different manner from the way that America would, and this is entirely understandable.

Also if you're talking about the difference in the way that WWII is treated in Southeast Asia, at least, then you should also keep in mind the different degrees of involvement that various countries had. Thailand as well stands out from the rest of the region as something of an anomaly, and doubly so, as well; it's never come under colonial control and also was not attacked by Japan, rather, both countries made treaties and Japan used it as a launching point for attacks into the rest of Southeast Asia (an oversimplification, I know, but that's the basics of it).

It might be interesting to bring Australia in, as well, since while they faced air raids by Japanese forces they were never actually invaded by land in the same way that many other countries were. They also did have a lot of soldiers in the war and were involved as part of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Also, I'm glad you're looking for links! It's always a good idea to read various sources and viewpoints on an issue before thinking about what exactly the root factors might be that caused it. Japan isn't the only country that has nationalistic tendencies in its education, nearly all countries do, and the whole thing about the deterrent of learning in depth, well, I can say that the same applies to the study of a lot of American history, looking at their textbooks and comparing it to what I myself learned in school. Does that mean my education was more comprehensive than theirs? Yes, but only in certain areas, in others I know very little (European history and western civ, I'm looking at you).

Also, while I don't know (and wouldn't want to say) that the negativity and pain attached to the Nazi's in WWII is not taught in schools, I will say that whatever IS actually taught in that part of the world is also taught alongside reports of Japanese atrocities during the war, the massacres by Stalin and the deaths in Communist China under Mao's rule, as well as the Khmer Rogue regime. There is, I have to say, a lot to cover.

There is no such thing as Yugoslavia.

Thank you! That really bothered me, especially coming from someone who berated someone else for not doing their research :/

Like the C-ute (an idol group) Hitler scandal. Thaaat was some crazy shit.

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