fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1815 ]

[ SECRET POST #1815 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1815 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 41 secrets from Secret Submission Post #259.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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18. http://i42.tinypic.com/9u7r5t.png

hmm I always thought Magneto AND professor X were both too idealistic. Completely Wiping out your "enemy" is never a good thing to do, but neither is sitting back and taking it and hoping for the best. Because there ARE evil people who will take and take and never give back. That's why war is such a sad thing, a lot of times the people fighting would rather not fight at all.

Stand up for your rights OP, but don't give up hope that no one ever changes their minds, I was raised to think being gay was wrong and man I did a 180. And if I can I'm sure more people can.

Seemed like there are many ways it's okay to agree with Magneto. You just need to disagree with the right ones!

I think part of the appeal of the Magneto character is that his ideology, though extreme, is somewhat understandable. There are people out there that the world would be better off without, IMO, so I can agree with your POV.

Yeah, most people would probably think Magneto isn't an emotionally healthy role model, lol, but both he and Xavier are too stuck in their ways. There has to be a middle ground.

pretty much. The reason Mags was so great in that movie - well, one of many reasons - is because he COMPLETELY came across as a reasonable result of having been oppressed and marginalized his whole life. (Still, wiping out EVERYONE ELSE isn't necessarily the best plan.)

...I'll be honest and say that I didn't find Magneto's end game reasonable at all, given his history. His mother was human, right? And he must have encountered some decent human beings while off seeking revenge. And he's a smart enough guy to learn all those languages, so it's not like he was operating from a position of ignorance. I just feel it was explained poorly, I guess.

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sensualcoco.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 04:13 (UTC) - Expand

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hoggle2807.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 07:21 (UTC) - Expand

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sensualcoco.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 07:44 (UTC) - Expand

I agree. The contrast between Magneto and Xavier is one of the greatest themes of X-Men. Magneto was raised in horror and perversion; Xavier in wealth and first world decadence. They use their backgrounds as the model of what is right and just, striving to convert others to their cause without ever making great changes to themselves. But that's what you want in a leader: someone who is sure in his convictions.

I find Xavier far worse a person and less understandable than Magneto. Xavier crosses all sorts of privacy bound and uses his powers to wipe minds and compel others to do his bidding. Magneto always gives you a choice: agree with him or perish. He's brutal, but he's honest in his brutality. Xavier will pretend to be your friend and use you; Magneto will just use you.

Xavier is just using his abilities the same way all mutants do, including Magneto - it's hypocritical to criticise him for using his telepathy and at the same time to agree with Magneto's ideas that all mutants should be proud of their nature.

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 04:25 (UTC) - Expand

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lilith20godrich.livejournal.com - 2011-12-25 09:58 (UTC) - Expand

Choice? *snort* What you say of Magneto reminds me of the Eddie Izzard "cake or death" routine. What kind of choice is that?

Your analysis is very intriguing, but you should know Magneto's 'choice' is actually a Hobson's choice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice) or a Morton's Fork (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morton%27s_fork), the non-choice, which really isn't any better.

Edited 2011-12-23 23:01 (UTC)

peace is always an option

it might be an option that requires a lot more work some times than others, but it is always an option. As they say, the kind of people who divide the world up into "them and us" (like Magneto), would be better off being killed at the hands of "them" to start with.

yeahhhhh
I do think his point of view is understandable, and that Charles's too much of an idealist, but the goal should NOT be to make a them vs. us world. The world is not that simple.

Africans against sodomy? Is this a thing? am I missing something here?

am I missing something here?
nothing of value

i recall it's form a video about homophobia in Ouganda. honestly, i'll link it to you if you want but..it's seriously disturbing.

Hmm; I am torn between wanting to know and fearing it might infuriate me for the next 2 days.

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 02:38 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2011-12-23 02:47 (UTC) - Expand

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insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com - 2011-12-23 07:03 (UTC) - Expand

I would reckon that is has to do with Uganda's proposed bill to make homosexuality a capitol offense, but I'm not sure.

And what does 'agreeing with Magneto' entail according to this secret? Bombing the bad Africans into learning the errors of their way?

I think it means build a big machine, then kidnap a fifteen year old so you can turn them all gay and that way they'll agree with you instantly or something.

Or you can stumble across a sociopath mindfucking your former best friend in the world into murder and then convince said sociopath to change his target

I think that taking a look at most historical revolutions involving marginalized and violently oppressed groups will tell you that violence, or at least civil misconduct, is often a necessary part of the fight. That doesn't mean that Magneto's call to genocide is right though, but I don't think Charles' "let's not fight back" POV would ever work for them. The non-mutants in charge are willing to wipe them out even after they just helped stop a war from happening. They're facing a hostile threat. Sitting and taking it, or trying to "show that they're not bad" isn't going to work; the non-mutants have proven that they'll think what they want regardless of what they see.

Okay, I'm not a huge X-men fan and the movies are my only point of reference, but based on First Class this is what I will never understand about Magneto: Shaw, the guy who killed Erik's mother, the one who made Erik's life hell and tortured him and did whatever the fuck to mess him up so completely? He's not human. He's a mutant. Shaw's the one who sets up the whole "mutants are genetically superior humans, humans must be eradicated, blah blah", which 1) who does that sound like? ~~Nazis/Hitler is the answer~~, and 2) why on earth does Erik take up the mantle of the guy who totally and completely ruined his life and was an awful person? Why does he not go for the complete opposite of what Shaw was advocating, if he hates Shaw so much (and he clearly does hate Shaw that much)?

I mean. I mean. I got it more in the earlier movies, when we didn't have all the Shaw backstory to go on, but it's only since First Class that I've seen people going, "Hey, he might've had a point, there". That whole deep significant exchange leading up to the "Peace was never an option"? What does Charles say? "You think all humans are like Shaw". But Shaw is not human, so that doesn't even make sense to me. Shaw's dickishness doesn't come from his humanity, it comes from the power his, um, power gives him.

I don't know, it's just illogical to me.

That's the greatest irony of Magneto: in trying to fight the Nazis, he has become one of them. I don't think he knew Schmidt was a mutant, just another Nazi human. He hates Schmidt/Shaw, but he inherently agrees with his ideology. He was abused and has now become the abuser. Magneto's believed Shaw was a human and a monster for so long that he is unable to believe that one of his own kind would have done what he did.

First Class creates an amazing Magneto backstory, one that shows a much greater depth of hatred and injustice. Your genetic sequence is not what makes you a good or bad person but your character, and your struggle to overcome it. Shaw actually humanizes the Nazis somewhat, taking them from a malignant but vague evil to a very personable choice to be evil. Shaw wanted a greater human race. He sacrificed what he felt needed to be sacrificed (Magneto's mother and the guards) to get his results and, ultimately, Magneto comes to believe the same. It's a great circle of hate, which emphasizes Xavier's struggle to create peace. And, wow, I didn't really mean to go on a tangent about First Class being a huge lesson in morals.

I found taking the actual helmet strange, too, but I think it was more of blocking Xavier out and a war trophy than a symbolic taking up of Shaw's mantle.

Peace is usually not an option in the beginning, and believing so ignores a history of human ideation and mass movement. We are simply not rational enough for immediate peace. However, some ways are better than others at making the violence stop quicker and with the least amount of harm, and Magneto's ideology was not one of them.

peace is always an option, even right in the beginning. Its just we don't remember all those wars that were never fought, all those rights struggles that never had to be struggled for because someone realised "hey, not worth being a dick over" and agreed right away. We don't remember all those times peace was an option, because peace happened. We only remember when it failed, sadly. But it is always an option, even when it fails.

(no subject)

meadowphoenix - 2011-12-24 04:17 (UTC) - Expand

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