[ SECRET POST #1843 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1843 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 50 secrets from Secret Submission Post #263.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

I'm so on the fence when it comes to this subject. On the one hand; yeah. There's no reason they couldn't make them a legit couple. Every character who assumes they are together never make it out like it's a bad thing - as if they just makes sense they're together coz they fit so well. And pushing the whole "mistaken for gay" joke does get more annoying the more it's used.

On the other hand, well, first off I don't ship them. Not sexually anyway. They're in love and they're soul mates but I don't see any sexual chemistry there personally. So them getting together like that probably would feel odd to me but not put me off or anything.

But also I remember seeing a quote from Mark Gatiss saying something about how he feels about fans wanting them to get together and saying how "it doesn't matter how many times you say they're just friends, people assume what they want." or something to that degree. I get the sense that he, like a lot of blokes I know, find it a bit weird that two men can't just care a lot about each other without them being a couple. Not as in it's wrong to be gay but just the idea two men have to be shagging to love each other. Which I can understand; it's the same as the idea that a man and a woman can't be best friends without eventually getting together or wanting to.

Went a bit TL:DR there. Uh...I BELIEVE IN SHERLOCK HOLMES? :P

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

....

" I get the sense that he, like a lot of blokes I know, find it a bit weird that two men can't just care a lot about each other without them being a couple."

Oh yeah. God knows, no one anywhere ever thinks two men can just be friends.

Except, um. Everywhere. And everyone. In every movie, and every TV show, and every book.

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

And in every one of those 'bromances' ever you'll find people who ship it. ;) Obviously that's not everyones opinion but I've seen a lot of men get reeeally defensive when someone says if two blokes spend time with each other they MUST be gay instead of just good friends. All you need is that one voice who ships it to annoy someone else who doesn't and shout; "You're seeing stuff that isn't there!" (actually saw something similar recently with this very pairing).

Not that I assume Gatiss or Moff are like that, I don't know the guys, but I just guess that they want to keep Holmes and Watson's relationship as it was in their beloved canon. And they don't want to feel like they HAVE to make them a couple just for the sake of it. They don't strike me as guys who wouldn't write them like that merely because they don't have the balls or what not.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

And in every one of those 'bromances' ever you'll find people who ship it.

And? What the fuck. Fandom does not equal the material it is derivative of. And "someone" shipping it doesn't mean that an overwhelming number of people, um, don't. The number of people who vocally ship gay/lesbian pairings in media is smaller than the number of people who watch and don't ship those pairings. There are also PLENTY of jerks who come round and yell at slash fans with this same line -- "Why can't they just be friiiiiends omg you creepy shippers they're obviously straight!" It's homophobic garbage -- why would it be so bad if they weren't just friends? Why is that so bad? Why would that make people say things like that? Is it that objectionable if a person wants to think of a particular character or set of characters as gay?

Obviously that's not everyones opinion but I've seen a lot of men get reeeally defensive when someone says if two blokes spend time with each other they MUST be gay instead of just good friends.

So have I. I call them "homophobic jackasses" because they make out that it somehow ~wounds them~ that people might see two men acting in a way they feel is romantic and think it might be romantic. If you're that hung up on whether or not someone things two guys are getting it on or not? You've got insecurities and issues -- and probably some homophobia in there.

All you need is that one voice who ships it to annoy someone else who doesn't and shout; "You're seeing stuff that isn't there!"

Yeah, and that someone else is a jackass. Not seeing why being homophobic and refusing to write an actual gay pairing in ONE SHOW is okay because someone might be ~annoyed by a single slash shipper. Do they not get how vastly, incredibly underrepresented LGBT characters are on television? That maybe, just maybe, people often ship same-sex couples because there are no fucking canon ones? JFC.

Not that I assume Gatiss or Moff are like that, I don't know the guys, but I just guess that they want to keep Holmes and Watson's relationship as it was in their beloved canon.

This is especially rich (and again, reeks of some homophobia on Moffat's part - he was the one who made the comment, allegedly, about wanting to keep their relationship as in the books) considering the misogynistic, bullshit changes they made to the character of Irene Adler. You're either going to be faithful to the stories or you're not. Hiding behind "but their relationship isn't like that in the books!" while you're making Irene Adler, adventuress and former opera singer, a bloody dominatrix doesn't track.

And they don't want to feel like they HAVE to make them a couple just for the sake of it.

It wouldn't be "for the sake of it." It would be because these two characters very clearly love each other, possibly in a romantic way. Why is that considered "just for the sake of it"? Would you consider it the same if they had John find a Mary Morstan to marry? Probably not. Of course it's only "petty" and "just because" if it's a gay pairing, right?

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

I actually do agree with you on all these points, I was just trying to get across the other side of the argument for those who do want Holmes and Watson to stay just friends. Doesn't really effect me either way. I love them as they are now and if they were to get together; awesome. Go show.

Sorry if what I said upset you. It's late, I've had a shit day and I really didn't mean to start an argument.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

It's cool. I just loathe those arguments hardcore, and there's somebody upthread who is pissing me off with a different awful and homophobic argument, and I just chopped an onion (least favorite cooking chore ever), so I'm a little.. yeah. Augh. :(

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Onions are the devil. At least you get your revenge by, y'know, eating them. :P

[fenm.livejournal.com]

I peeled onions for Christmas dinner, and my hands smelled like onions for days... O_O

[loracarol.livejournal.com]

~Random point that has nothing to do with anything actually in the thread or anything~

If you put your onions in the fridge, and only take them out right before cutting them, it helps so much. :D

Also, if you don't have time, the freezer for ~30 minutes will help as well, and make it so you're eyes don't water too much. :)

/I work at a place where we have to cut onions, fridging them helps a lot. :)

[jane-dont.livejournal.com]

I've been following this discussion and I feel I have to point out that I don't really understand the whole "you're seeing stuff that isn't there" argument. Of COURSE it isn't there. If it was there, it would just be canon. We're seeing things that aren't there but COULD be there.

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Ah, Irene....yeah, best I don't get started on that one. I plan to sleep tonight.

[finmagik.livejournal.com]

That comment was deleted but now I do want to get you started. I ship Irene/Sherlock in BBC and ACD canon. What's wrong with it? In my headcanon I've made it so it works in ACD and it damn well works in ACD. We all have headcanon, that's how shipping exist.

If two characters who aren't into each other in canon, are a couple to you, that's shipping. So What is your beef with Irene Adler? So you want him Watson, I want him Irene, some might want him Morarity or Hell run off Mrs. Hudson. Some might want Holmes to have a secret heart shattering affair in his past with a OC who was to good for this world and NEVER love again. (That past love died of the brain fever, very common and incurable).

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

My beef with Irene has nothing to do with shipping preferences. If you'd read my comment above you'd seen that I don't ship Sherlock and John in anything other than BBFS. And I've got nothing against people who ship Sherlock/Irene. I thought the two actors had fantastic chemestry. And to be honest, for most of the episode, I have no problem with Irene. She was badass and I loved how she was able to baffle Sherlock and to see someone best him.

It's just...the ending. From Sherlock using Irene's feelings against her to him then going to save her. As far as I know that wasn't in canon and from what I've been told the whole point of Irene was that she was The Woman who beat him. Except, in the series, she didn't. It seemed almost like a deconstruction of this brilliant character who's reduced to needing Sherlock in the end and him being able to use her feelings for him against her. So it's not really Irene herself as just how the third act of her story was written that annoyed me.

I still prefer her over McAams.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't work in ACD unless you are determined to make Holmes another character altogether - did you actually *read* SCAN?. Oh, and brain fever is a made up Victorian catch all for nervous upset and was not "common and incurable" because it wasn't a real illness.

Please to be doing some research.

Yrs, an actual canon Sherlockian.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

And in every one of those 'bromances' ever you'll find people who ship it. ;)

Which isn't the same as them being canon.

All you need is that one voice who ships it to annoy someone else who doesn't

You could use that to justify not shipping ANYONE. I can think of at least two fandoms with really, really bad ship wars involving straight couples (icon related).

but I just guess that they want to keep Holmes and Watson's relationship as it was in their beloved canon.

Yes, just like how in canon, Irene was a lesbian dominatrix who kept trying to jump Sherlock's bones.

Sorry, but the "true to canon" thing just doesn't wash for me anymore, so trying to use it to justify not making them couple just feels like so much bullshit.

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Yeah none of these arguments are meant to justify why people feel this way (Why the fuck am I saying it then? Because I can't sleep and so I can't shut up, that's why). Just helps me if I try to at least understand - even if the arguments do ridiculously contradict themselves.

Like the Irene thing...yeah, probably best we don't open that can of worms as well. :P

[(Anonymous)]

Seeing as Mark Gatiss writes gay detective stories, I'm gonna take (your interpretation of) that statement with a grain of salt.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

I get the sense that he, like a lot of blokes I know, find it a bit weird that two men can't just care a lot about each other without them being a couple. Not as in it's wrong to be gay

You know Mark Gatiss is gay, right?

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Actually I had no idea about that. Ignore that quote, I just remembered it from a post I saw on here a few days ago and either misquoted it or it was never legit anyway. :P

[(Anonymous)]

You know who's instrumental in slamming closets doors closed across Hollywood, right? Gay managers, agents, and casting directors.

[(Anonymous)]

... as well as gay publicists and producers and...

[shinydinosaur.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was gonna say that but you beat me to it.

[tayles.livejournal.com]

You beat me to this. And as a gay man I would guess he prolly finds it a bit tiresome that people would assume that he can't have any close male friends without wanting to shag them.

*is bi and has had women assume this about her so is finding a lot of this thread a bit irksome*