[ SECRET POST #1843 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1843 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 50 secrets from Secret Submission Post #263.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

....

" I get the sense that he, like a lot of blokes I know, find it a bit weird that two men can't just care a lot about each other without them being a couple."

Oh yeah. God knows, no one anywhere ever thinks two men can just be friends.

Except, um. Everywhere. And everyone. In every movie, and every TV show, and every book.

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

And in every one of those 'bromances' ever you'll find people who ship it. ;) Obviously that's not everyones opinion but I've seen a lot of men get reeeally defensive when someone says if two blokes spend time with each other they MUST be gay instead of just good friends. All you need is that one voice who ships it to annoy someone else who doesn't and shout; "You're seeing stuff that isn't there!" (actually saw something similar recently with this very pairing).

Not that I assume Gatiss or Moff are like that, I don't know the guys, but I just guess that they want to keep Holmes and Watson's relationship as it was in their beloved canon. And they don't want to feel like they HAVE to make them a couple just for the sake of it. They don't strike me as guys who wouldn't write them like that merely because they don't have the balls or what not.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

And in every one of those 'bromances' ever you'll find people who ship it.

And? What the fuck. Fandom does not equal the material it is derivative of. And "someone" shipping it doesn't mean that an overwhelming number of people, um, don't. The number of people who vocally ship gay/lesbian pairings in media is smaller than the number of people who watch and don't ship those pairings. There are also PLENTY of jerks who come round and yell at slash fans with this same line -- "Why can't they just be friiiiiends omg you creepy shippers they're obviously straight!" It's homophobic garbage -- why would it be so bad if they weren't just friends? Why is that so bad? Why would that make people say things like that? Is it that objectionable if a person wants to think of a particular character or set of characters as gay?

Obviously that's not everyones opinion but I've seen a lot of men get reeeally defensive when someone says if two blokes spend time with each other they MUST be gay instead of just good friends.

So have I. I call them "homophobic jackasses" because they make out that it somehow ~wounds them~ that people might see two men acting in a way they feel is romantic and think it might be romantic. If you're that hung up on whether or not someone things two guys are getting it on or not? You've got insecurities and issues -- and probably some homophobia in there.

All you need is that one voice who ships it to annoy someone else who doesn't and shout; "You're seeing stuff that isn't there!"

Yeah, and that someone else is a jackass. Not seeing why being homophobic and refusing to write an actual gay pairing in ONE SHOW is okay because someone might be ~annoyed by a single slash shipper. Do they not get how vastly, incredibly underrepresented LGBT characters are on television? That maybe, just maybe, people often ship same-sex couples because there are no fucking canon ones? JFC.

Not that I assume Gatiss or Moff are like that, I don't know the guys, but I just guess that they want to keep Holmes and Watson's relationship as it was in their beloved canon.

This is especially rich (and again, reeks of some homophobia on Moffat's part - he was the one who made the comment, allegedly, about wanting to keep their relationship as in the books) considering the misogynistic, bullshit changes they made to the character of Irene Adler. You're either going to be faithful to the stories or you're not. Hiding behind "but their relationship isn't like that in the books!" while you're making Irene Adler, adventuress and former opera singer, a bloody dominatrix doesn't track.

And they don't want to feel like they HAVE to make them a couple just for the sake of it.

It wouldn't be "for the sake of it." It would be because these two characters very clearly love each other, possibly in a romantic way. Why is that considered "just for the sake of it"? Would you consider it the same if they had John find a Mary Morstan to marry? Probably not. Of course it's only "petty" and "just because" if it's a gay pairing, right?

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

I actually do agree with you on all these points, I was just trying to get across the other side of the argument for those who do want Holmes and Watson to stay just friends. Doesn't really effect me either way. I love them as they are now and if they were to get together; awesome. Go show.

Sorry if what I said upset you. It's late, I've had a shit day and I really didn't mean to start an argument.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

It's cool. I just loathe those arguments hardcore, and there's somebody upthread who is pissing me off with a different awful and homophobic argument, and I just chopped an onion (least favorite cooking chore ever), so I'm a little.. yeah. Augh. :(

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Onions are the devil. At least you get your revenge by, y'know, eating them. :P

[fenm.livejournal.com]

I peeled onions for Christmas dinner, and my hands smelled like onions for days... O_O

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

My mum was peeling some onions the other day and I could smell them, teary eyes and all, from the other room! 0_o Beware the MegaOnions.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

They really are. They'll be going into a delicious stew, though, so there is some bright side to it. That is, if I ever get all the veggies done and put it on. /grumbles about fandom wank making her dinner late

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Love the image of someone slicing veg with one hand while typing fandom comments on their computer with the other. XD Pretty awesome.

[loracarol.livejournal.com]

~Random point that has nothing to do with anything actually in the thread or anything~

If you put your onions in the fridge, and only take them out right before cutting them, it helps so much. :D

Also, if you don't have time, the freezer for ~30 minutes will help as well, and make it so you're eyes don't water too much. :)

/I work at a place where we have to cut onions, fridging them helps a lot. :)

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, thank you for the tip :3 we actually refrigerate our onions as a rule (they go right in the veggie drawer with the rest), but I can try sticking them in the freezer sometime! Somehow our refrigerating them never quite stops them from making me miserable. xD

[(Anonymous)]

I read this as put your opinions in the fridge...

DEEP

[jane-dont.livejournal.com]

I've been following this discussion and I feel I have to point out that I don't really understand the whole "you're seeing stuff that isn't there" argument. Of COURSE it isn't there. If it was there, it would just be canon. We're seeing things that aren't there but COULD be there.

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Ah, Irene....yeah, best I don't get started on that one. I plan to sleep tonight.

[finmagik.livejournal.com]

That comment was deleted but now I do want to get you started. I ship Irene/Sherlock in BBC and ACD canon. What's wrong with it? In my headcanon I've made it so it works in ACD and it damn well works in ACD. We all have headcanon, that's how shipping exist.

If two characters who aren't into each other in canon, are a couple to you, that's shipping. So What is your beef with Irene Adler? So you want him Watson, I want him Irene, some might want him Morarity or Hell run off Mrs. Hudson. Some might want Holmes to have a secret heart shattering affair in his past with a OC who was to good for this world and NEVER love again. (That past love died of the brain fever, very common and incurable).

[finmagik.livejournal.com]

Jim has lots of people working for him. I don't know they know everything he did/does. He doesn't blog about it. There might be rumors like the ones about Marcellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction, not even the dudes killing people for him know everything about Marcellus I bet it's the same with Jim.

Also in my headcanon I bet Jim has some kind of hold over her, I bet he has that over lots of people who work for him. He is a puppet master. Maybe her Mom in Elizebeth Town, NJ is under the impression that her daughter is NOT THAT Irene Adler, but a nice respectable dentist. And Irene wants her Mom to think that, and be alive.

Also Catwoman. She's totally Catwoman to Sherlock's Batman. And everyone digs Catwoman. Hasn't Catwoman put Robin in more direct danger, then Irene did John?

But this all IMHO and YMMMV

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

My beef with Irene has nothing to do with shipping preferences. If you'd read my comment above you'd seen that I don't ship Sherlock and John in anything other than BBFS. And I've got nothing against people who ship Sherlock/Irene. I thought the two actors had fantastic chemestry. And to be honest, for most of the episode, I have no problem with Irene. She was badass and I loved how she was able to baffle Sherlock and to see someone best him.

It's just...the ending. From Sherlock using Irene's feelings against her to him then going to save her. As far as I know that wasn't in canon and from what I've been told the whole point of Irene was that she was The Woman who beat him. Except, in the series, she didn't. It seemed almost like a deconstruction of this brilliant character who's reduced to needing Sherlock in the end and him being able to use her feelings for him against her. So it's not really Irene herself as just how the third act of her story was written that annoyed me.

I still prefer her over McAams.

[finmagik.livejournal.com]

Me too. That says something. Although personally I think he had feelings for her as well but that's all subjective.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't work in ACD unless you are determined to make Holmes another character altogether - did you actually *read* SCAN?. Oh, and brain fever is a made up Victorian catch all for nervous upset and was not "common and incurable" because it wasn't a real illness.

Please to be doing some research.

Yrs, an actual canon Sherlockian.

[finmagik.livejournal.com]

My tongue was firmly in my cheek the whole time, joking. I was joking. People have been putting bullshit motives for Sherlock for about 100 years.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrainFever

[fenm.livejournal.com]

And in every one of those 'bromances' ever you'll find people who ship it. ;)

Which isn't the same as them being canon.

All you need is that one voice who ships it to annoy someone else who doesn't

You could use that to justify not shipping ANYONE. I can think of at least two fandoms with really, really bad ship wars involving straight couples (icon related).

but I just guess that they want to keep Holmes and Watson's relationship as it was in their beloved canon.

Yes, just like how in canon, Irene was a lesbian dominatrix who kept trying to jump Sherlock's bones.

Sorry, but the "true to canon" thing just doesn't wash for me anymore, so trying to use it to justify not making them couple just feels like so much bullshit.

[lolofielding.livejournal.com]

Yeah none of these arguments are meant to justify why people feel this way (Why the fuck am I saying it then? Because I can't sleep and so I can't shut up, that's why). Just helps me if I try to at least understand - even if the arguments do ridiculously contradict themselves.

Like the Irene thing...yeah, probably best we don't open that can of worms as well. :P