[ SECRET POST #1907 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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07.
[Disney's Gargoyles]


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08.
[X-Men: First Class]


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09.
[keanu reeves]


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10.
[keanu reeves]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]


















11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]



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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]



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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]



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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]



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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]



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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]



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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]



















18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]



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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]



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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

Virginity is really a pretty personal thing. Determining when someone stops being a virgin is difficult because so many people have different opinions. Does oral sex count? Do hand jobs? What about masturbating while cuddling? What if my girlfriend/boyfriend uses a toy on me, but I don't touch them? Ect.

Someone might not identify as a virgin, but may not have had penis in vagina sex. If having someone put a penis in your vagina is not necessary for the loss of your virginity, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for the loss of virginity either.

[(Anonymous)]

(Upthread anon)

If having someone put a penis in your vagina is not necessary for the loss of your virginity, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for the loss of virginity either.

Oh logic fail. So much logic fail.

Bleeding out is not necessary for death to occur, therefore I don't see why bleeding out should be automatically sufficient for the loss of life. See how stupid that sounds?

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

Death doesn't have a variable definition. Virginity does.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, so brain dead does count? What about people who are technically dead during a heart attack? It ain't as black and white as you think.

Or if you're not happy with that...

If getting a divorce is not necessary for the end of a marriage, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for the end of a marriage either.

If emotional blackmail is not necessary for spousal abuse, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for spousal abuse either.

If aggressive trolling is not necessary for getting a forum ban, I don't see why it should be automatically sufficient for a forum ban either.

You want me to keep going or have I made you look stupid enough?

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

Just because you have a list of things which are sufficient, but not necessary for various states/acts doesn't mean that the specific thing I mentioned must be sufficient.

Chocolate chips are not necessary for cookies, so I don't see why it should automatically be sufficient for cookies.

Still doesn't really prove anything.

I don't think a specific sex act should be declared as the be all end all of whether or not your a virgin. This is because the concept of virginity is so mutable.

[(Anonymous)]

Just because you have a list of things which are sufficient, but not necessary for various states/acts doesn't mean that the specific thing I mentioned must be sufficient.

Yes, but unfortunately for you you're still wrong.

Chocolate chips are not necessary for cookies, so I don't see why it should automatically be sufficient for cookies.

Oh, *tsk* You changed the paradigm dramatically and that won't work. We're talking action and consequence, not ingredient and construct. Try again! I'm sure you can come up with a better example this time!

I don't think a specific sex act should be declared as the be all end all of whether or not your a virgin. This is because the concept of virginity is so mutable.

Fine you want it fucking specific, here you go!

If women sharing a double dildo is not necessary for sex, I don't see why women sharing a double dildo should be automatically sufficient for sex. I think some lesbians would like to disagree with you. :)

I don't think a specific sex act should be declared as the be all end all of whether or not your a virgin. This is because the concept of virginity is so mutable.

Penis in vagina sex is sex enough to lose your virginity by any fucking definition (pun a happy accident) you care to find, m'dear.

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

You are ignoring the automatically in that sentence.

Which would mean that it can be sufficient if the specific person involved believes it to be sufficient, but doesn't have to be sufficient if they believe it isn't.

And I know that any definition I look up is going to consider penis in vagina sufficient. What I said in the first comment you replied to was "I don't see why it should". Which is me expressing my dissatisfaction with this, not me saying that other people don't consider it sufficient.

[(Anonymous)]

You are ignoring the automatically in that sentence.

And you are ignoring the fact that you couldn't come up with a counter example using action and consequence.

And I know that any definition I look up is going to consider penis in vagina sufficient.

So you admit how ridiculous it was?

What I said in the first comment you replied to was "I don't see why it should". Which is me expressing my dissatisfaction with this, not me saying that other people don't consider it sufficient.

Backpedal harder! You spent two comments trying to defend your flawed logic in the face of all reason. You don't get to call it opinion now. Besides opinions can be provably wrong (and by coincidence yours is!)

However, I'll take this comment to mean that I was right and your logic was horrible to the point where you can no longer defend it, but your own hubris is preventing you from realizing your mistake. So hooray for me! I won the internet fight!

[mika-kun.livejournal.com]

You should probably take it to mean that it's 3:20am where I am, so yeah, I am having a hard time coming up with counter examples, but that's hardly conclusive.

Also, since you can, in fact, go back and look at the first comment I made in this thread, it always was opinion. Just because you say I'm backpedaling doesn't make it true.

I started debating the examples you came up with because I didn't think using death as an example was fair given it's *comparatively* strict definition. (You're right, it's not quite a dead/not dead dichotomy, but it's still more strict.)

My next argument was admittedly weak.

[(Anonymous)]

It's late here too sweetcheeks, and I'm tired of dealing people who have nothing but excuses, so I'm going to bed.

Give me something better in the morning!

[(Anonymous)]

You want examples of causes which are neither necessary or sufficient? In pool, pocketing the eight is neither necessary nor automatically sufficient for a foul.

[(Anonymous)]

That's actually a pretty good example, of course it's more conditional and depends on other factors, but I'll give it you as a good example.

[urplesquirrel.livejournal.com]

Here's the thing, anon. There is no medical definition for virginity. The old standard of the hymen being torn? Many women these days lead active lifestyles that cause their hymen to be torn long before they ever have sex. Without a single, overarching definition that describes what virginity is, that means it's pretty much a free-for-all as to what does and does not "count" as losing virginity.

A woman or girl who has never had previous sexual activity and been raped is completely within her rights to define herself as still being a virgin, and say "I'm a virgin until I choose to have sex with somebody."

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not talking about from a medical standpoint.

Without a single, overarching definition that describes what virginity is, that means it's pretty much a free-for-all as to what does and does not "count" as losing virginity.

It's a person who has not had sex, generally speaking. I can see the "virgin until I decide to have sex" too.

A woman or girl who has never had previous sexual activity and been raped is completely within her rights to define herself as still being a virgin, and say "I'm a virgin until I choose to have sex with somebody."

I can accept that as a personal (as in valid, but not the default) definition, no problem! :D I'm also okay with "born-again virgins" where someone has a sordid sexual past that they decide to leave behind and have a "second virginity." Even though the default assumption is probably "no sex ever." (If I knew a friend had been raped and then talked about herself as a virgin, I would be surprised, but I'd roll with it no problem!) It's mika_kun arguing that rape isn't sex, so therefore does not count period.