[ SECRET POST #2007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - text secret ], [ 1 - empty image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[diet_poison]

Fine, I'll bite.

By definition, pro-choicers are anti-life. Unless they're using some other meaning for the phrase that doesn't include thinking it's ok to kill unborn human beings.

(see how silly this is?)

[diet_poison]

Didn't say no one was allowed to comment on it. The snark was just really not necessary. But okay.

[diet_poison]

In a perfect world it would be illegal, just like the destruction of human life is generally illegal and people are protected that way. But in a perfect world, people wouldn't disagree on what a human life *is* and the reality is that people do. I'd rather put my energy into making situations as good (or less bad?) as possible for women and children and protecting what I believe to be human life, than put my energy into creating situations where those who are desperate put themselves in even more danger. btw, I would really love to see a world where women don't feel like abortion is their only choice, where they're desperate because their family will disown them, abusive partner will abuse them more, they'll never be able to finish their education, etc. That's a daunting task, but the stigma placed on pregnant women and the lack of resources available to help them is at the root of not only this but so many other problems.

Glad we have so much common ground :)

[stainless]

You're making sense to me! I think I'm a little more forgiving of abortion than you are. I still really don't like it and it deeply concerns me that people try to minimize the seriousness of taking human life. But for me it's less "we don't live in an ideal world" and more that I feel that while deciding whether to abort is a moral dilemma (and it bothers me greatly that some people seem to feel it isn't), it's not one I think I get to intrude in.

Honestly, if I were pregnant (somehow -- I thank my lucky stars near-daily I'm gay so I don't have to worry about this), I don't know what I'd do. The very thought of being pregnant deeply revolts me and I can't imagine trying to live through nine months of horrified disgust at my own body. But could I take life to ease my distress? I don't think so. But even after every day of my life being what for me would be an experience of profound body-horror, there would then be a child, whose fate I'd either be the closest part of or at least have to decide. Could I do that? I don't know.

I don't think I could bring myself to do what I do, yes, see as killing to avoid all that. But I do think that whether I did it or not, I'd probably end up with crippling, and possibly suicidal, depression. (Which would not do much for the life I'd be deciding whether to spare...) Since I think that being in that situation would be something so deeply horrifying that I have no idea how I'd handle it, I can't promise I know whether I'd abort or not. And if I am sure only that I have no idea how I'd deal with it (or if any solution I came to would be sane enough to actually count as dealing with it), I feel I can't in good conscience want to take others' choice away or condemn them for making it.

So that's why my feelings are what they are. I consider myself pro-choice, but pretty much horrified by the whole thing. It saddens me that so much of the pro-choice movement in the US is so focused on trying to make it seem like the whole thing isn't a horrifying moral dilemma. For some of us it really is.

I stand by my opinion and I'm proud of my convictions, but I really wish more people would respect that I came to them by wrestling with what to me is a really seriously morally weighty issue and as I see it, there's really nothing "good" on either side.

[avatarmn]

So over 25 years ago, in a book that no one read so it was about to be cancelled, someone who didn't normally write Spiderman wrote him being a bit dickish, and therefor he shouldn't be as well liked as he is? Got it.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, a group dynamic does change matters. I thought it was more of a "you and her" friendship/relationship, while still belonging in a group.

Yeah, seems like your way might be the most turmoil-free. If you and your friends, as a group, do decide to either confront her until she shapes up or leave her, do consider it seriously. I get that it would be terrible to just abandon someone when they're alone, but if at some point this person starts creating conflict with her behavior (as it might get worse instead of remaining stable), don't feel that you're letting her down when it's your sanity on the line.

There is the chance that she will simply grow up with time and realize how much she's annoying you all, though.

Have any of you confronted her or had a heart-to-heart to make her aware of her behavior? If this has happened, and she didn't care, makes it very different than if she didn't know at all.

Re: cover link

[(Anonymous)]

that was pretty damned good!

[(Anonymous)]

It's only silly because you're being utterly obtuse. It wouldn't be silly at all if the "pro-life" side hadn't chosen a dumb as fuck term for themselves that doesn't really represent their stance well at all. One side is for letting women have the choice to give birth or not, whether or not they agree with that choice or would make if for themselves. They are pro-choice.

The other side is against letting women have this choice. They are anti-choice in this circumstance. You could also go with 'anti-abortion' (except then they'd try to paint the other side as 'pro-abortion', which is inaccurate, as many pro-choice people would rather abortions don't happen, but think women deserve the right to choose) or 'pro-forced pregnancy/birth' (anti-forced birth/pregnancy is an accurate summation of the other side).

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think so. I find it a bit frustrating because I love comic!Pepper so much but it doesn't translate onto the big screen because I just can't get past my aversion to Gwenyth.

[diet_poison]

I could still take your arguments and reverse them the way I did before, and we would continue like this over and over again and get nowhere. You're also missing a lot of the connotation both terms carry which, believe it or not, is important.

Anyway - you won't agree to respect the term a movement has chosen for itself. I'm not too inclined to fight about it.

[diet_poison]

I'm glad you and I are able to find so much common ground on this issue, and I deeply respect the amount of thought and consideration you've obviously put into it. Many people on both sides of the issue don't think about it nearly that much.

[diet_poison]

You must not understand how it's often used in online discussions (regardless of what it really means).

[diet_poison]

...misfire?

[diet_poison]

Like what shit are you even on.

Pointing out an extreme, batshit stance from one side doesn't negate the batshit stances from the other side. (btw, no one is here speaking up on behalf of those bizarre eugenic whackjob feminists you mention)

I really can't believe anyone here stood up and said they'd join the MRA's. x__x

[diet_poison]

I get what you're saying in your last paragraph but I think the proportion of people who reject the label for the bad reasons is not as high as you think. Also, I'm pretty sure no one here on f!s is coming from that angle.

[(Anonymous)]

Quit trying to draw false equivalences between the absoluteness of the two positions.

Pro-choicers are not trying to make everyone that is pregnant get an abortion.

Anti-choicers (aka pro-lifers) are trying to make everyone that is pregnant carry their pregnancies to term.

It's not about whether or not the fetus is alive or a human being. It's about believing women have the right to decide whether or not they want to let their bodies be used as incubators. Suggesting women should be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term is about as ridiculous and against someone's right to bodily autonomy as suggesting people should be forced to donate a kidney against their will.

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT

Why the fuck should I or anyone else have to respect the label of a movement that is trying to take away my rights?

[(Anonymous)]

Late reply, but Tara does make a guest appearance in 4.13 (which also has minimal Nate, since everything's happening from the POVs of Sophie, Parker, and Tara). iirc, the episode stands pretty well on its own, too, so it might be worth looking up just for the dynamic between the women on the team.

[unicornherds]

everything's happening from the POVs of Sophie, Parker, and Tara

Yes please! Thank you, I'll definitely go and look that ep up.

[(Anonymous)]

I argree with you, OP

[diet_poison]

I guess I'm not comfortable referring to myself as "pro-choice" because of the connotation it carries: that it is okay to kill a human being. But I definitely see where you are coming from, there.

[diet_poison]

It's not about whether or not the fetus is alive or a human being.

Why not? Seriously, I want to know why you think this isn't important.

[(Anonymous)]

There are plenty of nice and kind fanartists out there, anon. You can't base them all on the few you've dealt with.

What exactly is insufferable douche-baggery, I'd like to know? Are they actually jerks, or just don't want to draw what you want to see?

I'm an artist, and it's incredibly annoying when someone I don't even know tells me, "Will you draw me and my boyfriend/me with this character/these characters in this scenario/etc? I won't pay you, but you'd have my thanks!" I work full-time, and for me, art is my relaxation time: just because I can draw doesn't mean I want to spend all of my free time drawings things that don't make ME happy.

Re: Happy Canada Day

[fickletastictot]

Late reply, but YEHAY!

*highest of fives!*

OH AND YES, TORONTONIAN XD

[fuchsiascreams]

..you can be pro-choice and also not want babies to die at the same time. Please stop trying to tell me what my beliefs are according to your labels.