[ SECRET POST #2061 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2061 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Xena: Warrior Princess]


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02.
[tales of symphonia]


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03.
[The Girl From Tomorrow]


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04.
[Spyro the Dragon]


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05.
[Lamento -Beyond the Void-]


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06.
[Aidan Gillen]


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07.
[Skyrim]


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08.
[Touhou Project]


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09.
[Total Recall]


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10.
[Castle]



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11.
[Spyro the Dragon]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













12. [SPOILERS for the Dark Knight Rises]



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13. [SPOILERS for Digimon 02]



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14. [SPOILERS for the Borgias]



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15. [SPOILERS for Tales of Symphonia]



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16. [SPOILERS for asoiaf/game of thrones]



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17. [SPOILERS for A Dance With Dragons]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














18. [WARNING for eating disorders]



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19. [WARNING for pedophilia, rape, child abuse]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #294.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

It is kind of disappointing to me as a formerly impartial observer that no one on the "anti" side has really addressed the arguments brought up other than "WOW YOU ARE A BAD PERSON!!!" Like how regular porn is used for grooming too, or that porn about rape has some really unsavory people orbiting it too but there isn't as serious of a call to ban that shit. or the ethical problems attached to sensoring shit because a small percentage of people do terrible things with that shit. It's like serial killers that are inspired by books and music about dark people. You don't ban the book.

I'm a ridiculous person that explores my own opinions on the topic by reading troll-y debate threads, but all of the "anti" arguments are just so "NO YOU ARE WRONG" without actually backing any of their shit up, even when asked to provide the statistics they claimed existed repeatedly, that I think I'm shifting more towards the "go ahead, as long as you can differentiate fiction and reality" side.

[(Anonymous)]

you say "shifting"

does that mean you're anti?

what arguments would you have provided, then?

[(Anonymous)]

Same.

[(Anonymous)]

The thing is that it's a very basic instinct to defend little children, and that people who admit to reading fictional child porn are gonna get the stink-eye because it's their word (which is in part, "I like to read about sexualized children") against the word of people who predominantly would not ever wish to see a child getting hurt. It's a toss up between the idea of protecting against the idea of someone wanking to questionable stuff, and really now.

The debate here is really unrefined, but people shouldn't ACT surprised when their defense of kiddy porn is taken badly either.

My point is (because I sort of lost track of where i was going) that if the anti-loli/shota people's argument is "NO YOU ARE WRONG" then the kink defenders argument is "NO I'M NOT". You can bring statistics or not, but if you do or not it isn't gonna change shit. You're never gonna have wide approval towards loli/shota.

I'm on camp "Don't fucking tell me. If you do I'm not gonna take it well" which applies to a range of kinks, really. But child porn is probably gonna get a stronger reaction because unlike other types of porn/kinks, it involves children, not adults who are assumed to be able to stand up for themselves.

(and if you ironically shout at me "YOUR ARGUMENT IS JUST 'BUT THINK OF THE CHILDREN'" I'll be like, yeah, and? I'm not using children here as an excuse to further my own opinions. Children are intrinsically involved in this debate, and I'm gonna be thinking of them.)

[(Anonymous)]

Where the hell is my like button graphic?

[(Anonymous)]

applause.gif

[(Anonymous)]

people who admit to reading fictional child porn are gonna get the stink-eye because it's their word (which is in part, "I like to read about sexualized children") against the word of people who predominantly would not ever wish to see a child getting hurt

You say that these are the sides as though people who read fiction about sexualized children DON'T hate seeing children get hurt. I read underage stuff (not visual stuff like loli/shota so I don't know what that's like), and I work with kids. I cannot imagine that the thought of real children being hurt makes anyone else in this thread sicker and angrier than it makes me. Reading fiction and caring about child welfare are not fucking opposite sides in the argument.

[(Anonymous)]

I read underage stuff (not visual stuff like loli/shota so I don't know what that's like), and I work with kids.

Stopped reading right there. Holy shit what's wrong with you. And don't bother answering because it's not a question.

[(Anonymous)]

I know how to differentiate fiction from reality and use my real life to work for things I care about? I guess that's what's wrong with me. :D

[(Anonymous)]

oh you

[(Anonymous)]

+1 lock s/h/it up and throw away the key

[(Anonymous)]

I hate knowing this, but if by reading you mean fanfiction, "underage" is not as bad as loli/shota/visual novels in that sense. The latter hyper-sexualize the children while at the same time aiming for a cutesy/innocent look. "Underage" fanfiction, to its credit, has some sense of normalcy in terms of characterization, tone and setting, and even when it gets into dark/rape territory, it's only the super-fans of anime and similar characterization and writing "styles" who write that kind of skeevy characterization into it, and they kind of give themselves away by it.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Thanks for the info. If I felt like that stuff was all people in this thread were talking about, I probably would have stayed out of it, but I think it's gotten more general now. And I don't want to give fanfiction too much credit because there's a lot of shady stuff that happens in fanfic porn even in purely western fandoms, though the style is different.

[(Anonymous)]

That's what I'm saying. You can say you wouldn't hurt a child or see them hurt, but the part of the sentence that is going to give the strongest impression is "I read underage stuff". For most people, that's enough to be uncomfortable. Are they right? Are you right? I'm really not sure who can decide that. I don't actually doubt that you would never hurt a child, but it doesn't make me any more comfortable about the idea.

[(Anonymous)]

I just don't know why you see the burden of proof the way you do.

No one in this thread has been able to produce evidence that fanwork that depicts kids in sexual situations (which is what I think we're talking about, although the comment above yours makes me unsure) is produced for the purpose of grooming kids or enticing actual predators. Like rape fantasies and 50 Shades of Grey the danger is in not recognizing that real life should not be like fiction. Any tool is a weapon if you hold it right. That doesn't mean you need to side-eye everyone with a toolbox.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

anon above me is right too. Underage could easily just mean teenagers, and people could to be more lenient towards that because lets be honest there is a lot of media centering around the later years of teenagehood. But loli/shota is hyper-sexualized stuff that just does not look good when you're caught reading it.

[(Anonymous)]

In other words: it's all affect heuristic, not logic.

Very few people in this thread are actually using their noggins. They're substituting the question, "does this make me feel bad" for the question "is this wrong." The result is a lack of any remotely intelligent discussion.

(Since I know how this will be taken, I will add the aside: people on both sides are using the heuristic, and people on both sides are substituting).

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

I'm tempted to say "same", but I'm way too skeeved out by the side trying to defend loli and shota as normal, not-creepy-at-all kinks.

Sure, it may be your kink. Whatever. Just don't try to act like sexualizing children is normal or healthy.

[(Anonymous)]

not ayrt

You and anon above have made sigh in relief. Every time this topic comes up here I wind up feeling disappointed and angry (at fs, at the internet, at humanity), but not today.

Not today.

[(Anonymous)]

na

usually when we have this kind of secret there are a lot more defenders. Maybe they were too lazy to move here from livejournal or something

[(Anonymous)]

No shit. Sorry, but if you're going to defend porn about children, even simulated, people are going to look at you funny (and rightly so) because you're defending porn about children.

[visp]

Well, most people just want to stay out of the wanky morass that is shota/loli debate. But, here goes:

1. It is still child pornography, and acceptance of it leads to more acceptance of the idea of sexualizing children.

2. A person who likes any kind of child pornography, likes the idea of sexualizing children, and that's enough to skeeve most people out.

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, this

there is common sense at the end of this thread c:

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty much. Given the choice? I don't think "kink-shaming" will cause nearly as many problems as encouraging and normalizing the sexual objectification of children.