fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2076 ]

[ SECRET POST #2076 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2076 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 5 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #297.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Rory as a pathetic sap? Only when stuck as the Boring Mundane Human (tm) next to the Doctor, River, aliens, etc. He's pretty badass compared to, say, Adam (that guy who tried to make a profit off the future and got kicked out of the TARDIS). Well, everyone is. But he's done some pretty cool stuff.

Amy, on the other hand? Annoys me to no end. You're pretty much spot-on. Aside from the wedding-night thing, the other thing that bugged me

(SPOILERS FOR PREMIERE OF SERIES 6 OR 7 OR THE LATEST ONE, THE CURRENT ONE, WHATEVER THE HELL WE'RE UP TO NOW)

was her reason for going through a divorce with Rory. Also, her idea that "you waited 2000 years for me, not going insane, not even knowing if I was going to be okay, and all of that pales in comparison to giving you up!" Uh, no. Maybe, MAYBE, if she was "giving him up" because of something that they'd discussed thoroughly and had mutually concluded that breaking up was the only way to stop something even worse from happening, but because Amy thought he wanted kids and didn't have the common sense to say the slightest thing about it? I mean, how hard is, "Rory, I know you've always wanted kids, but if you still really do, we need to talk"?

I realize this probably bugs me more than your average Dalek (because there were a great many problems with that episode in my view and clunky drama for the sake of drama is a smaller one of them), but I rather feel better for having ranted.

If anyone's still reading, I also find annoying Moffat's penchant for Companions who are smarter than the Doctor. It's like, he's the Doctor, there's not supposed to be anyone smarter than him, not in the sense that he should always have to explain every single thing to the dumb humans, but in the sense that I find it ridiculously grating when a (comparative) stranger waltzes into the Doctor's life and cheerfully fixes it, rendering the Doctor speechless. If whoever it is isn't evil or mixed up in the Problem of the Week at the end of the episode, I feel like I've walked into a bad fanfic. It's the Doctor. Stuff that he can't or doesn't know how to fix is stuff that could potentially destroy worlds or continents or at the very least the place the episode is set in. Just... it happened with River and I said, okay, well, this might be interesting, let's see where it goes, and now I'm kind of worried it'll happen with New Girl, who has even less of an excuse (although I'm wildly hoping that she has an excellent one). Argh.

Sorry, that was long.

noooo don't tell me there's another River :c

SPOILER ALERT (AND RAMPANT SPECULATION ALERT)

The lady who's supposed to play the Doctor's next companion showed up in Asylum of the Daleks. I'm wary of her because she seemed extremely overpowered even with her excuse (which was kind of a doozy), but Moffat seems a little too attached to this "Doctor Who?" arc, and the odds of him playing the transition from where she was in Asylum to a Companion are IMO getting slimmer by the episode. She was sassy and fun and smart and had River's "It's not supposed to make that noise, you just leave the brakes on," spirit. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, and in fact it's a really good thing, to have a female character who knows her stuff and isn't afraid to show it, but sometimes I wonder if it would be a bad thing to introduce Moffat to the list of fanfic cliches that's lying around TV Tropes somewhere.

All of Moffat's female characters end up turning into essentially the same person.

This. His idea of a strong sexy female has the range of a banana.

Look at this banana. It's a bit green, so maybe it's not a banana? Ooh, what about this really mysterious darkened and overripe peel? Is there a banana within? It could be pebbles! How mysterious.

This is quite possibly the best description of Moffat's range of female characters I have ever read in my life.

you waited 2000 years for me, not going insane, not even knowing if I was going to be okay, and all of that pales in comparison to giving you up!

Frankly, I think that whole scene was handled poorly. I'm sorry, but Rory pulling the "I love you more" because of the 2000 year thing (which he did freely, of his own accord, and WITHOUT AMY'S INPUT)? So... he did it so he could hold it over her the rest of their lives? That's sure what it's starting to feel like to me. Thanks Moffat, for turning something wonderful into a tool a man is using to tell a woman she owes him, or he's better than her, or some shit like that.
God, just GTFO, Moffat.

And yeah, the "mysterious character of the week fixes all the problems" thing is bullshit.

It's like over the summer they stopped knowing how to communicate. I mean, seriously? Doctor Who is still sci-fi. It's not a sitcom, or a romantic drama. I kinda felt like the Doctor, trying to get them to stop making out for a minute so we could get back to the important stuff.

That and I feel like their marriage problems were a cheap gimmick to get us to buy the whole "love, not anger" thing. I will be amazed if we see any bit of that left over in the next episodes, and if we do I will retract every single statement I've made about Moffat's writing being bad.

"Doctor Who is still sci-fi. It's not a sitcom, or a romantic drama."

+10000 THIS THIS THIS

The 2000 year wait thing has bugged me from the moment I saw it. Like, it's supposed to be a grand romantic gesture/atoning from shooting her in the stomach/whatever but the whole thing came off as unnecessary.

The whole point of the Pandorica is that it's a perfect prison. It's so good it keeps death out. (Never mind that it can be opened by pointing a sonic screwdriver at it...) So what's the purpose of endangering one's mental and physical health by standing in front of said perfect prison? Especially if it leads to the weird imbalance in their relationship that it did (though it's likely Rory didn't consider that).

I dunno, all this just reminded me of how The Big Bang II makes less sense to me every time I watch it.

There was something about him dragging it out of a fire...?

Maybe either a) he didn't know it was made of Indesructium, and/or wanted to make sure, or b) there was the danger of it getting buried as time moved on. B is kinda flimsy so I'm guessing A.

I thought it was sort of interesting, myself. The dynamic, at least.... Sigh. I dunno. It was shiny and I liked it and now the shine has worn off and it's still shaped the same. At least Matt Smith gives it his all, he's captivating as the Doctor.

To be fair, Rory flat out asks the Doctor if Amy would be safer if he guarded her and the Doctor says 'yes'. We know it was pointless, but Rory didn't, he only knew what the Doctor told him about it. By leaving he would be endangering Amy, if even only a little bit, so he stayed.

I think it was more not keeping things OUT or IN the Pandorica, but more keeping tabs on its location always. Yes. Amy was safe. The Pandorica was safe. But without Rory, it's entirely possible it would have ended up in someone's art collection early on.

I keep hearing this, but that's really not what he said. They go 'it subtracts love and adds hate', he is arguing that he will have a better chance at surviving long enough for them both to live because he loves her more. He brings up the 2,00 years, because in contrast to that, from childhood Amy ignored and avoided him, then called him her 'sort of boyfriend', ran off on their wedding night and tried to have sex with someone else, and then threw him out after they were married with no explanation at all--or a made up one, I'm not sure. From his perspective, it's pretty clear Amy never really loved him all that much.

He's not using it to say 'you owe me' here, and it is never implied that he ever uses it for that purpose (or even brings it up ever at any other point, since he usually tries to ignore it), he's just trying to illustrate that he has more love to lose, not because "I DID THIS FOR YOU" but because "I have so much love for you I managed to do this.", and it's a reasonable conclusion for him to make when she just threw him out.

Of course the whole argument is pointless, because he could have just said "You have been being converted longer, I haven't been yet, let me carry the ring for a bit." but then they couldn't have their big reveal argument.

he is arguing that he will have a better chance at surviving long enough for them both to live because he loves her more.

... which is a way of saying he's better than she is. Like I said.

Which he isn't saying. He is not saying she isn't as good as him. He's saying he loves her more, which is a completely reasonable conclusion when she threw him out and filed for divorce (and apparently proceeds to slap him often when they run into each other) just 'because', after he spent 2,000 years not going insane protecting her. In this situation, him loving her more is actually relevant to saving her life, not just some arbitrary leverage.

Loving someone more than they love you does not make you a better person. That's really twisted thinking, and kind of Nice Guy-ish.

Regardless, I didn't see it as him lording it over her. She was being turned into a puppet of the Daleks. The Doctor said that it was important to hold on to feelings of love to stave off the infection--and since Rory feels as if he has MORE love than her (and, as other anon pointed out, he has reason to), it would take slower on him. It would SAVE HER LIFE. He was trying to make her understand that she didn't need to take his wrist thing out of some token of love (since he believes she no longer loves him), or affection, but out of simple, as he put it, arithmetic. He loves her more, here is why.

So this is an exceptional circumstance that he brings it up.

No, he's understandably thinking that because he's still in love with Amy and didn't want to divorce, whereas she just threw him out and filed for divorce for apparently no reason, at that moment he loved her more than she loved him. He doesn't know her motivation in throwing him out so he is probably just assuming that she's fallen out of love with him and doesn't want to be with him any more.

He's not saying he's better, any more than I would be a better person than you if I loved cake more than you did.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-09 14:13 (UTC) - Expand

You know what would have been really cool?

Say, for whatever reason, we must keep Amy and Rory splitting up over the summer. It's not because they can't communicate, it's because... hmm. Amy, who now knows the Doctor is real, keeps looking wistfully back at their adventures, which, while dangerous, were exciting and fun and every day was different, and she's not adjusting well to the mundane life. Rory feels like he's being ignored and passed over in favor of someone who isn't even there and whom he can't compete with because they aren't even on the same plane. Amy's also harboring some trauma, guilt, etc, over the whole River Song, can't-have-kids thing, but at this point when she tries to tell him by leading into it (ex "You know that time when"), Rory just can't deal, because he feels like she's stuck in the past, and she can't explain well enough to get him to realize what she's trying to tell him. They fight, and now you have Amy thinking Rory's sick of her and vice versa.

This goes on for a little while. Eventually some apologies are exchanged. They kiss and make up, but something doesn't heal quite right, like broken fingers that no one bothered to set. They grow apart, Amy withdrawing further into "When things were good" and Rory feeling increasingly alienated. The two of them aren't really husband and wife anymore: they're two people who happen to have a lot of legal connections to the each other.

Still, neither of them ever really utters the word "divorce." Because for all that it's not right now, they want it to work, they want it to be - not like it was, but they want what it was to have changed as they did, and neither is quite ready to admit that it hasn't, and maybe can't and won't. They're cold and distant, almost professional, keeping a quiet, tense, clockwork truce. There are a few attempts to talk it out, set right whatever went wrong, but it never works. They can't solve this in an hour, or an afternoon.

Both of them are tired. Both of them have almost forgotten what it was like to care so bone-deeply that they would wait two thousand years, or ask themselves to "defy destiny, causality, the nexus of time itself" for the other. And then the Doctor happens.

Well, more specifically, Asylum of the Daleks happens.

And you know what? There's no epiphany therapy. There's no big reveal with hearts pounding and music swelling and a Big Damn Kiss. Rory just says, "Here," and holds out his bracelet. "I have more time left than you."

And Amy opens her mouth to protest, and then sees the logic in this, and just takes it and says, "Thank you," quietly and steadily. The two of them wait, not talking, just sitting next to each other on the teleporter, until the Doctor comes back. (He hadn't given Amy his bracelet here because their discontent was less loud and superficial, but rather slow and poisoning instead. And, I dunno, he'd choke immediately if he did. Shut up.)

And they don't immediately get back together. They don't kiss and make up, not right then and there. Nothing is really resolved. But as they keep traveling with the Doctor, seeing beautiful lands and nigh-mystical beings and running, always running for their lives, they start to see. Every time Rory waits, every time Amy chooses him, they start to see where it went wrong. And they tell each other. Not in a big shouting match, where revelations are used to pierce and with deadly effect. But quietly, and sadly, and sometimes it's just part of the conversation they're having, and sometimes Rory will pause in the middle of what he's saying and just blindly trot out something like, "It's all right, you know. That you love being here so much. I... I do too, but - not - when we aren't there-" and Amy will nod, and although Rory has said much the same before, this time she's a bit closer to understanding exactly what he means.

And sometimes Amy will pull him away from tinkering with the Doctor and say something like, "We need to talk," and what's amazing is that they actually do, they talk and listen and they pretend the Doctor isn't listening too, and they realize they aren't perfect. They're only human, only them. And that's enough, really. They have their flaws but they still refract light when held up to the sun.

And by the end of the season, they're more or less back to normal. But they're not the same. They've changed and learnt and grown around each other, both as characters and as people. There's something subtly different about the way each of them hold themselves, in the way Rory will kiss Amy good morning and the way Amy steps out of the TARDIS while holding Rory's hand.

Can't believe no one commented on this. This idea is gorgeous. I don't even watch Doctor Who for, well, various reasons to do with the way the premise is handled, but this really touched me, anon.

Yeah, that would not be Dr Who. That would be some long tie-in novel, or some separate drama, or an epic fanfic. It would not be the BBC's flagship family viewing adventures-in-time-and-space for all ages and all demographics.

And, frankly, fandom secrets would still be full of people who didn't get that's what was being subtly sketched in, and ranting about how it was stupid.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-09 14:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-09 22:35 (UTC) - Expand

that sounds even WORSE IMO.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-09 14:46 (UTC) - Expand

Oh man I thought I was the only one.

I like Twilight, and am forever irritated by people who tell me in the same breath that Edward Cullen (whose behaviour is problematic, but also makes sense for a guy born in 1900 with his brain chemistry permanently stuck in late adolescence) is a horrible creepy stalker but Rory is a lovely perfect man whom Amy doesn't appreciate enough. They are both weird and possessive, but I mind it more in Rory who's supposed to be a modern individual and who isn't being driven by various atavistic nonhuman instincts thither and yon and has supposedly grown up--in fact is often treated as the only grownup in that relationship.

" but because Amy
thought he wanted kids and didn't have the common sense to say the slightest thing about it? I mean, how hard is,
"Rory, I know you've always wanted kids, but if you still really do, we need to talk"?"

Waaaaaaaaitwaitwaitwait...you mean that they not only they go OTT with needless soap opera drama (not in my SF TV, thank you), but they're not even internally consistent with it? What happened to that whole "proud new and overly-emotional parents" bit from the we-find-out-who-River-Song-is episode? Hand-waved? Forgotten? Dismissed? So, they're doing space opera, but not even particularly good space opera? Okay!

Yanno, IDEC. I'll just be over here in the corner with whatever I can find online from anything DW pre-1990s. With the possible exception of Seven and Ace.

Amy was left infertile after her abduction, and kicked Rory out because she knew he had wantd kids his entire life. It's selfish and really, REALLY irritating.

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[ SECRET POST #2076 ]

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