[ SECRET POST #2112 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2112 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 102 secrets from Secret Submission Post #302.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Especially this last weekend. All of the meltdowns have been beautiful to watch from afar. It's nice because I watch the show, but I'm not part of fandom, so I understand everything going on, but am not particularly invested in any of it.

[(Anonymous)]

DA. Oh my God, this weekend has been such a beautiful clusterfuck. Colton leaving? The campaign to make Tyler Posey feel appreciated? The heated debate about whether or not Jeff Davis confirmed Stiles is bisexual? I am the happiest wankmonger.

I have never, ever, ever been in a fandom where the CREATOR got pestered about slash like this. Something special is happening here.

[(Anonymous)]

I love it when people try to read between the lines every time Davis says something. Even if he is just making a joke, some fans take it as the gospel truth. "Special" would be a very good word for this.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's a classic case of selective hearing; they hear what they want and discard the rest. Like during the NYCC panel, when someone asked if Stiles' hinted bisexuality would be explored in canon. The only part of Davis' response was what he said first: "I feel kind of backed into a corner -- that could be spoiler territory." So people flock to tumblr to shriek about how there's some sort of spoiler about Stiles being bisexual! Only if you actually watch the video, he then immediately follows this up with statements like they'd maybe consider that if it felt right for the story, if they had to find some way to keep Stiles' character fresh four seasons in, if Dylan came to him and said he was bored... I'd love to see Stiles portrayed as bisexual, but let's not flip out over something Davis never said, yo.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Parts of the fandom just really don't seem to get that storytelling >>>>> your favorite ship/pet theory/head canon, too. I'd love to see Stiles be bisexual in canon, but I'd rather they didn't shoehorn in something that made no sense with current goings-on or the general narrative or that came off as existing solely to be clunky fanservice. Like, hey, I know this group of bad ass alphas is trying to kill us and we're running for our lives, but I feel like now would be the ideal time for me to announce my sexual orientation!

[(Anonymous)]

Right, exactly. And from a character standpoint, they'd have to wrap up Stiles' feelings for Lydia to some extent before a big sexual identity crisis. (Actually, that would be really good timing. Stiles drags his eyes away from Lydia, and bam, he discovers that not only is the world filled with other girls, but also with other boys!) Point is, this would all take time and careful consideration of how it would fit into the show as a whole. If Davis even wants to. Personally, if I were a showrunner and I'd been mapping out character arcs for as long as Davis presumably has, I'd be reluctant to change my ideas at the insistence of my fanbase.

[(Anonymous)]

This would be the problem. It would take several episodes to make it believable and in-character, and there are far more important plot points to handle (not to mention rewriting Jackson's part now that Colton is leaving).

I wish that the most obsessed fans would remember that it is a TV show, not an interactive game where you can choose your own ending, if you are loud enough.

[(Anonymous)]

It would be kind of a huge deal -- and it could fit in with a more generalized Stiles character arc or overall season theme, like identity perhaps, becoming comfortable with yourself. But it would require a lot of attention, and it would have to be foreshadowed more bluntly than it already has. In short, they'd really have to commit to making Stiles bi. They'd have to really want to do it. And personally, I think they should, because the idea that Davis would intentionally put bisexuality hints in and then never provide the payoff feels a little icky to me. But I also understand why it could take a very long time, and I acknowledge that he may never have intended for those hints to ever have a payoff. And certainly, Stiles being bi does NOT automatically equal his being interested in Derek.

Idk man, it seems like the best policy when dealing with fandom is just to thank them, then ignore them. If you let on that you're malleable, you will be DEVOURED.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly! And honestly, exploring all the stuff that there's not time for/it doesn't make sense to go over in canon is what fanworks are for. There's nothing saying that you can't explore Stiles' sexuality in fic, even if it doesn't make sense for the writers to pay a great deal of attention to it in canon.

I think the thing that kills me the most about the fans that are way too in writers/creators' faces pushing for things is that they would be completely up in arms if someone left a comment on their fanfic/comic/art/whatever saying, "Well, this is nice and all, but I personally really love x, so you should change this picture/story/whatever to fit my preferences and disregard whatever your original plans were." I mean, it's great that some creators are willing to pay attention to fan feedback, but it's really entitled to think that the fact that they're willing to have a relationship with fandom means that fandom gets to call all the shots.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's a stretch to say there would never be time or it would never make sense to develop Stiles' bisexuality in canon, but it would certainly be a commitment and the writers would have to actively want to go there.

Haha, yeah, that kills me too. If someone suggested I change a short story to suit their personal desires (which is not the saying as offering objective critique), I'd be pissed as hell. And that's just a short story; I can't imagine how reluctant I would be to scramble my plans for a TV show, which is a longstanding creative and emotional investment that you have to be happy with in order to write.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh no, I don't think that there will never be time to explore Stiles' sexuality in canon. That was poor wording on my part. I just meant to say that if there's never a point where the writers have a chance to work it in, that people shouldn't assume that it's the end of the world. I am all for it making canon, since I'd like to see more positive portrayals of bisexuality in media in general, but like you said, it would be something they'd have to be committed to exploring, and if they're just doing it to please fans, they could easily muck it up.

A lot of people in fandom seem to have problems distinguishing between legitimate critique and being a pushy asshole about things. I can only imagine how frustrated Jeff Davis must be about being constantly bombarded with questions about Sterek. Although I have to admit, that is partially his own fault for opening that door, however unwittingly. They should have a class where they sit down writers/showrunners/other creators the second their stuff starts to get big and explain to them the proper way to approach fandom in the wild. It would save so much heartache in the long run.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yeah, I agree. Shoehorning it in at the expense of character & story would not work. I want to see it done -- but I want to see it done right.

I feel kinda bad for Jeff Davis, because he has clearly had to learn very quickly that everything he says will touch off an explosive chain reaction somewhere in the depths of the internet. He should never have encouraged fandom to think he was receptive to their ideas. It's like feeding one stray cat who meanders onto your stoop; all of a sudden you're a crazy cat lady with twenty feline friends, six of whom are named Trixie. Davis should've taken pointers from Vince Gilligan. That dude doesn't even google the name of his own show.

[(Anonymous)]

DA Oh god, the fandom's tendency to read way too much into EVERYTHING that Jeff Davis says kills me. I used to get annoyed with all of the "Jeff Davis said the schooner. A schooner is a ship. OMG STEREK IS TOTES GONNA BE CANON GUYS!" crap, but then I reached the point where I decided to stop giving a fuck and now I just sit back with my popcorn and watch things unfold. I'm all for fandom meta and discussions and speculation, but TW fandom takes it to a whole new level of ridiculousness.

[(Anonymous)]

Especially considering the actual canon is not that well-written sooooo how much can you meta anyway? Unless it's like the SPN version of meta, which is either gushing about the characters or trying to shovel plotholes full of fanwank.

[(Anonymous)]

Right? At first I just assumed that it was because a lot of the online fandom is younger (and not to say all younger fans take things too literally, but there tends to be a bit of a learning curve when you're new to fandom), and it was just a baby's first fandom type deal, but I really don't think that's the case. It's kind of baffling. You guys aren't new.

[(Anonymous)]

One theory I heard recently is that embittered Supernatural fans are jumping ship for the S.S. Sterek. It makes sense; the two shows are similar in tone and content, and Stiles/Derek has more than a passing resemblance to early Dean/Castiel -- an antagonistic alliance between a stone-faced, sharp-tempered supernatural creature and a witty human, wherein emotional damage abounds? Check. SPN fans have become acclimatized to a culture of fanservice, limited boundaries, and wild entitlement. If Teen Wolf fandom is a mixture of fandom newbies and Supernatural veterans, it explains a LOT.

[(Anonymous)]

That actually does make sense. I'm a fan of both SPN and Teen Wolf, and I have seen a lot of overlap between the two fandoms. And I actually still enjoy both shows (well, saying I "enjoyed" S7 of SPN might be stretching it a bit), but a lot of the issues with TW fandom do seem to be carry overs from SPN and/or rehashed wank. And having super shipping focused, kind of wanky people from SPN fandom making all the new fans in TW fandom their fandom padawans is... not good. And I say this as someone who enjoys shipping and meta and all that shit. It's just... there's a line people. Let the writers do their thing and stop trying to dictate where you think the show should go. And, you know, actually stop to listen to what the creators are saying before frothing at the mouth and going off on wild-ass tangents and starting campaigns and all that other ridiculousness.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a fan of both shows as well, and I noticed a little while ago how many TW/SPN crossovers I was stumbling across, and how many people I saw in Sterek fandom that I already knew from Dean/Cas fandom, how many people were quite obviously involved in both fandoms... so the SPN migration theory makes sense AND is observable. That's almost science.

I agree with you re: shipping-focused Superfans. I had a fantabulous time in SPN fandom but holy god, the fourth wall is a miserable tattered piece of tarp lying shredded on the GROUND in that fandom. And certainly, we outwanked everyone except Twilight and Harry Potter. So I'm pretty sure we're a terrible influence on TW fandom, and Jeff Davis' inability to establish firm boundaries isn't helping.

[(Anonymous)]

It also seems like the people who were convinced that Dean/Cas HAD to become canon are a lot of the same people who are captaining the SS Sterek. And as someone who does enjoy both pairings (although I'm one of the no-let's-just-stick-with-fic people, partially because I am old and cranky), the similarities are definitely there and noticeable. Especially when you take into account the fanon representations of both pairings. It's like the disillusioned Dean/Cas fans decided that they would build fanon Sterek in their image or something. One of my friends who got into the show after reading fic couldn't get over how different Stiles and Derek and their interactions were on screen compared to what she'd read. Which is probably part of the problem, too - all the people entering the fandom via fanfic and then ignoring canon in favor of the ideas they've already formed about the characters based on what they've read. It's like a neverending fanon feedback loop.

I'm at the point with SPN where I basically just talk about it to my friends and do my best to ignore everything else. Well, except the occasional super wank, since sometimes those can be hilarious to observe from afar. Lol.

[(Anonymous)]

I have started to suspect this as well. Hopefully the RPF shippers will stay the hell out, because that's a full-blown train wreck waiting to happen.

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't some members of the TW cast live together? I'm having J2 flashbacks.

[(Anonymous)]

What? Coulton is leaving? Is he going to be in the next season at all? Because I really want Jackson to get some character development before he has to leave. I was just warming up to him.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes! It's a juicy story, primarily because no one knows wtf happened. There were many reports on pop culture pages citing anonymous sources, and there were ambiguous tweets, and then Jeff Davis tweeted to say he had no idea wtf was going on, and the fandom was in an uproar. Someone on tumblr wrote emo poetry about it. It's been confirmed since.

As far as I can tell -- which is to say, what most reports agree on -- is that Colton was offered a contract for 48 episodes (I assume over the next two years). However, he'd just gotten a role as a lead in a new pilot. His management sat on the contract for two months. At some point during this standoff, MTV downgraded* his contract to only 12 out of S3's 24 episodes, and, as a regular, he would have been forbidden from filming other projects even while not actively at work on TW. Negotiations fell through and Colton walked. He's off the show, which Tyler Posey cried a little about at NYCC. Jeff says he's going to write Jackson out in a way that leaves room for him to come back, if Colton wants to.

*I think -- this could have been the original offer. Really don't know.

Personally, I think this move was stupid as hell. Who ditches a picked-up show for a freaking pilot?

[(Anonymous)]

which Tyler Posey cried a little about at NYCC

Aw, bb :(

Their friendship was always so great

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for the rundown.

Well at least he isn't getting killed off, so there's potential for some resolution. Hopefully.