[ SECRET POST #2122 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2122 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 034 secrets from Secret Submission Post #303.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

uhhh those of us TRY to focus on the things we like. it is hard when sterk is EVERYWHERE, and some sterek fans feel the need to interject themselves in spaces they are not welcome. i have seen posts about pairings and characters besides sterek be derailed into sterek. i've seen fan art of other pairings be assumed as sterek even when it clearly states it is not.

but wow, yeah. how dare people call out racism, sexism, and all that stuff. so not nice!! because you know, being called a racist is worse than being one and the like.

[pynapel]

yes
yes
yes
i love you

you took my words and said them nicely and yes

four for you

[(Anonymous)]

Not going to bother engaging you on the first paragraph because your second paragraph is pissing me off too much. That's not what I said so don't put words in my mouth. Obviously concerns about isms should be raised and discussed. However, assuming that all Sterek shippers are racist (for example) solely based on the fact that they ship Sterek is not only inaccurate, it's rude as hell. IMO, it makes people who use that strategy apparently only for the purpose of trying to "guilt" others into changing their shipping preferences come off as ridiculous. The same can be said for shippers who use issues of gay rights and representation as justification for trying to make slash ships canon, as far as I'm concerned. Hiding ship wars behind important issues is counterproductive to the aim of having real discussion about them.

None of this has to do with my point above - getting people to engage in polite and productive discussion and debate by insulting them is never going to happen. And like it or not, accusing someone of prejudice without foundation is insulting them.

[(Anonymous)]

oh well, then i guess i will be rude as hell. all my interactions with sterek shippers have been negative, upsetting, and at times triggering not only for myself but others. when it comes time to point out someone being fucked up, the person calling out is the bad guy and all the other little shipper friends rally around, complaining about how it's so terrible to call so-and-so homophobic or racist or whatever. it makes my life easier to assume someone is an asshole until proven otherwise....and that has yet to happen.

i also don't give a FUCK if i hurt someone's poor little feels by calling them out as racist or whatever. maybe they shouldn't say terrible shit if they don't want to be assumed to be a terrible person :)

[(Anonymous)]

Oh for fuck's sake. Yes, if people say terrible shit, then call them out on it. If people are happily writing fic/drawing art/what have you of a pairing that's not your cup of tea and not actually saying or doing anything fucked up, don't accuse them of something horrible and then complain about them taking offense at it or not responding to your objections in the way you want.

I deal with assholes all the time. They're incredibly easy to...manipulate.

[pynapel]

hey psst:

we're not talking about those people



generalization? what's that????

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, generalization is horrible. Like generalizing that all Sterek shippers are prejudiced. Or that everyone's an asshole until proven otherwise. Two examples.

[pynapel]

When someone generalizes, it's pretty much guaranteed that they KNOW not everyone is like that. So when the listener points this out, it just shows that:

1. The listener isn't really listening
2. The listener doesn't care about what the speaker is saying
3. The listener is more concerned with defending themselves/playing devil's advocate that hearing someone express their feelings
4. The listener is a derailing asshole


It serves NOTHING in a conversation to whine about how "not everyone is like that".

[(Anonymous)]

Well, first of all, I disagree with your statement that "it's pretty much guaranteed that they KNOW not everyone is like that." If you think that's true...

Secondly, as I've said repeatedly from the very beginning, if a person really wants to have a conversation about this issue they're so concerned about, they'd recognize and appreciate that accusing "the listener" of something (especially if, as you say, they know that's not always/necessarily the case) also serves absolutely nothing. If you want to make assumptions and refuse to acknowledge any points someone has and be hypocritical, don't pretend you want to have a conversation.

And now I'm so done. I have better things to do than try to point out that "not everyone is like that" has almost nothing to do with what I've been saying.

[(Anonymous)]

why the fuck do you and others always bring up these faceless people who are nice and polite and do nothing wrong, and act like OH NO!! people are going out and stomping on their sandcastles and ruining their fun.

no one fucking does that, and it's derailing as shit to always bring them up. obviously if people are talking about assholes in fandom who are racist, sexist, whatever-ist THEY AREN'T TALKING ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE.

[(Anonymous)]

"No one" does that? That...that sounds like a generalization.

And by the way, people taking a single sentence out of the context of a larger comment, twisting its meaning around, and derailing the subject of this secret into an argument over isms/assholes in fandom? Not exactly supporting your claim here.

[(Anonymous)]

riiiiiight cause there is NO connection between sterek and -isms in fandom. at all. total derailment.

you can go back to your tumblr pals how and your boring white dicks cause this conversation is clearly going to go nowhere.

[(Anonymous)]

There's ABSOLUTELY a connection between Sterek the entire entertainment industry and -isms. There are far better ways to attempt to change that, however (still my original point). Tumblr isn't one of them, which is why I'm not on it, but thanks for making assumptions about that and my fandom interests in boring white dicks.

Also, thanks for the fun. ;)

[pynapel]

All I read was

"wah someone didn't use an inconvenient disclaimer and therefore called all sterek shippers racist, which as everyone knows is the WORST THING IN THE WORLD TO BE CALLED"

i bet you're the guy who says "BUT WE'RE NOT ALL LIKE THAT" when someone makes a legitimate complaint about a group of people

go home

[(Anonymous)]

Hiding ship wars behind important issues is counterproductive to the aim of having real discussion about them.

Yes, thank you! This is increasingly becoming the new way to fight ship wars, and I'm not even talking about Teen Wolf fandom now.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. My admitted argumentativeness aside, this aspect of fandom is disgusting, and the trend needs to stop. I completely believe that fandom is absolutely fantastic for educating people, increasing tolerance and changing the world. That will never happen if people appropriate and abuse such issues simply to ship and/or flame.

[(Anonymous)]

I just had to pop in and say that I agree with everything you've been saying here, anon. As sick as I am of seeing Sterek interjected into meta, posts, and discussions of other characters and ships within the fandom where it really doesn't belong, Sterek shippers are not all terrible, horrible human beings, and regardless of what some might try to claim, that is what many of the vehemently anti-Sterek people have been pushing. For a group who likes to go off about how awful the Scott hate is (and there is some awful Scott hate out there that needs to stop, I agree), they're pretty quick to jump all over people who like Stiles and Derek and make assumptions about how anyone who would prefer Stiles over Scott is a horrible person who perpetuates all the -isms ever, without bothering to sit down and listen to the reasons that people give for disliking aspects of Scott's characterization.

There's a difference between calling out people for being assholes who perpetuate sexist/racist/homophobic/ableist ideas and just using deeper social issues as a cover for your anger and lashing out because people don't like your preferred character or pairing. I've seen anti-Sterek people talking about how so many people in fandom liking Sterek/not being fans of Scott is "triggering" to them and no. You don't get to use that word because someone doesn't like your fave. That is not how it works.

[(Anonymous)]

Well said - thanks!