[ SECRET POST #2126 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2126 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 106 secrets from Secret Submission Post #304.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

17. http://i50.tinypic.com/96zvx1.png

[(Anonymous)]

No offense to western comics fans, but YES your assumption is correct: cohesive stories, etc... basically, long term consistency and continuity is SADLY lacking. Do what I do: pick up the good stuff after that storyline is complete and ignore the rest.

[(Anonymous)]

Marvel/DC =/= Western comics.

The problem is that most superheroes are owned by companies and they have a tendency to switch out writers really fast. New writer normally means completely new story line, as they obviously want to write their own stuff.

So when a writer gets fired due to unsatisfying sale numbers or if they have to do a forced tie in for some stupid crossover event, a story arc can get thrown out without any warning. It is pretty frustrating.

The only way to avoid it is reading comics that have consistent writers, which normally means creator owned. Stuff like Walking Dead, Hellboy or Invincible.

[(Anonymous)]

Agreed. One of the things that bothers me about Marvel is that they don't do a lot of Elseworlds-type out-of-continuity closed stories, like DC does, because I find the characters fascinating (and I actually really do love the idea of a shared universe) but the format and the way the characters progress with the same continuity bugs me to no avail because it's almost always done so poorly and really can't be done well, IMO.

I kind of also wish superhero movies wouldn't try to "do x storyline from the comics" apart from the origin stories. Riffing on the comics to bring in supporting characters and villains is nice, but I'd rather them take the movie characters in a completely different direction from the comics characters, because the decades-long, meandering comics format does not translate to film well at all.

[(Anonymous)]

No, it's not the norm. But then again, bad writing isn't the norm either. There's a reason JiM was hailed as one of the best series Marvel puts out at the moment- it was. However, Gillen made it clear from the get-go he had a vision for this run's full story, and it isn't going to go on for years like other series (Thor, Avengers, etc) do.

I think you'd find more things for your taste outside of mainstream comic books, specifically in ones that have a more of a traditional story-book-structure, like Transmetropolitan, Scalped, Fear Agent, etc. I personally won't tell you to put your trust in Gillen's writing- while I love JiM and his SWORD miniseries was good, his Uncanny X-Men run was mainly 'meh' to me, and his run on Generation Hope was even less appealing. But, yes, to judge by the way he writes teams- it won't be like the first YA series at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you looking specifically for long-running titles? I'm not familiar with the two you mentioned, but there are many Western comics in a self-contained series or novel format that tend towards being more tightly written because they aren't ongoing. A sample size of two isn't much in this case, either. What kind of comics are you looking for or do you like?

[(Anonymous)]

That's certainly an exception with mainstream Big 2 comics, at least on a macro level - although individual issues may be coherent and cohesive, the long time scale inherent in the form means that there's no real coherence over the long term. Just the way it is.

But reading individual comics series can still be rewarding, if they're well-executed. Moreover, there's plenty of well-executed, coherent Western comics - they just don't tend to be superhero comics published by DC or Marvel. Check out Bone, for instance, both because it's an excellent example of this, and also because everyone everywhere should read Bone. It's so good, you guys.

[(Anonymous)]

This is generally why I don't read western comics. I prefer a closed-end story, not hundreds (or thousands?) of stories that all interact with each other published over 40 years and you need to read as many as possible to see the whole.

Clearly it's a your mileage may vary, but I much prefer the ones that end without the characters migrating to another comic. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Western comics =/= Marvel and DC superhero comics

[auggie18]

A) Not all western comics are Marvel and DC.

B) There are a ton of closed-ended stories in Marvel and DC.

C) You don't need to read all of the stories to understand the one you are currently reading.

Most of the better written stories are done so that you don't need to know the backstory to get what's going on.


Superman/Shazam is totally enjoyable if you know nothing about either character. The Incredible Hercules, Straczynski's Thor, the Runaways, Thor: The Mighty Avenger, X-Men: First Class, Shazam and the Monster Society of Evil. These are all books you can just pick up and read.

And that's not even counting stuff like Blankets or Invincible or iZombie or anything by Erin Faith Hicks, not to mention the small press stuff. Western comics are more than dudes in capes punching each other until the end of time.

[auggie18]

Also, this, because I feel like pushing Faith Erin Hicks on people. (Her work is so good!)

http://www.faitherinhicks.com/wolverine/index.html

[(Anonymous)]

Sadly the majority of Marvel/DC comics are fanfic. So.... yep. It's fanfic. It's the same sorts of plots that appeal to the writers and inconsistent characterization and all of that.

Look for one-author stuff. Like Transmetropolitan. Just... damn. Transmet's probably one of The Best comics I've ever read for the way the art and writing work together. Though it is fairly dark and raw.

The other possibility is to look for self-contained arcs or books. I'll warn you, it's hard as hell! Comics freakin' love to have more cameos and guest stars than a 8th season sitcom.

[intrigueing]

Sadly, this. It makes me shake my head when people try to insist that anything that happened since the '90s in Marvel/DC comics is "part of the source material" or an "integral part of the character" because lol omg. Seriously? So, would you consider it true to the source material if Mephisto showed up in The Amazing Spider-Man 3 then? :D

[(Anonymous)]

It depends.

Many people are happy about Winter Soldier, for example, in the upcoming Captain America movie.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, hey, this is fandom secrets. We like fanfics here. Not to mention, there is good and bad in any media, it's not something unique to mainstream comic books or fanfiction.

I'd say Mainstream comic books are basically the written version on soap operas. Just that, while soap operas cater to women and focus on romance, drama and comedy, superhero comic books focus on action, fantasy and sci-fi.

[(Anonymous)]

I get you completely. YA was my first Marvel comic, and it didn't particularly blow me away. However, JiM is one of my favorites ever.

I think cohesive stories are more normal in miniseries at Marvel/DC than in longish stuff. I dig Thor comics, but whenever there's a change of writers sometimes it turns into another thing, and the new JiM run sounds awesome and I'm looking forward to it but it's not planned. I guess it's the same with the other iconic big heroes. Gillen's JiM in the end was a sort of critic to the status quo that won't let characters change and grow, so Kid Loki's development was meant to make a point.

But for conclusive plot and characters, I think it's safer to go for short series or even go straight to indie comics and Vertigo. It's less frequent for those to be butchered or retconned in order to milk a cash cow... usually, at least.

[terabient]

Man I am feeling like the dumbest person ever now. I've been so caught up in tumblr-esque ~feels~ that I completely missed how the end of JiM is the perfect FUCK YOU to the whole concept of Marvel Time.

brb, must to re-read the whole run while keeping this in mind.

[(Anonymous)]

No, that's about how most people feel about Young Avengers--love the characters, baffled by the plot. You should have been around when the fandom was following Children's Crusade.

[serenitysquid]

I think that's how a lot of people feel about Marvel and DC in general. Both have a lot of awesome characters and a lot of weird, convoluted, badly written stories.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh god, don't mention Children's Crusade. My head still hurts from that bullshit.

[(Anonymous)]

This, so much. And it only gets worse when they reference the other plots currently going on in their shared universe, which make just as little sense.

[taotrooper]

I haven't even READ Children's Crusade because I could smell the impending doom (no pun intended), and then I felt so vindicated when my friends were twitching in agony! D: After Runaways, I always expect the worst to happen with anything with teens in it for both companies.

[ooh_mrdarcy]

It's okay! I read lots of DC and Marvel comics, and even I have to admit half of them (maybe even the majority) seem to be rather... underwhelming. And, like you pretty much said; likable characters, but the plot leaves something to be desired. There are exceptions, of course, but for someone who's just starting it can be a little disheartening.

[(Anonymous)]

There are some superhero comics that get to have planned, cohesive plot arcs, and are also well-written, but they tend to be sadly rare.

If you like the idea of Young Avengers, you might try the first few volumes of Runaways, which is a similar concept but much more of a straightforward, stand-alone plot.

In the DCU world, Starman Vol 2, which ran from 1994-2001, was famous for being one of the first main-line superhero books to combine a long-running regular series with pre-planned, consistent narrative arcs.

[b_dangerous]

Young Avengers is good, but it's more of an introduction and feels cut short. Of course, it's picked up in other books and limited titles, but it would have been nice to see a more story-centered book for them. The closest you probably get is Might Avengers (which featured Vision and Cassie) or Children's Crusade.

If you want a good story, I recommend Astonishing X-Men by Joss Whedon. It's very contained and well played out. The characters are great and the story has an open-ending that allows you to either read onwards in more X-Books or stop there.