[ SECRET POST #2144 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2144 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 023 secrets from Secret Submission Post #306.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sarnath]

Irene Adler turned straight? I think you're imagining things, nonnie.

And people assuming two young men living together may actually be together is queerbaiting? Especially considering that Scandal pretty much confirmed that John was in love with Sherlock.

[(Anonymous)]

It did? When?

[sarnath]

Irene tells John that he and Sherlock are a couple, and he says he's not gay. Her answer: "Well I am. Look at us both." He doesn't deny it.

I mean, it's not as clear as actually saying "we're both in love with him", but for anyone not requiring being beat over the head with the meanings of what people say, it's crystal clear.

[fenm]

And I'd give a shit about that scene if they had the balls to follow up on its implications. ALL of its implications. Not just having Irene talking about how much she wants to fuck Sherlock. Which, btw, she does IN FRONT OF JOHN, after saying they're a couple, and that John is in love with Sherlock. What a nice woman.

[(Anonymous)]

Now, now, we're supposed to see her as sympathetic character remember.

Even though if a guy had done that he'd been seen as the biggest, most irredeemable douche ever put on screen. But whatevs. :P

[fenm]

Oh, right! I forgot, we're supposed to care about the lying, back-stabbing, blackmailing, moral black hole of a human being who regularly fucks up people's lives for fun. My bad.

[sarnath]

She's not a nice woman (in a way I really like).

How would you prefer it to be followed up on? I thought John a) was repressing and b) convinced Sherlock isn't interested. What would you have him do?

[fenm]

How about... oh, I dunno, anything?

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, the fact that people are constantly alluding to the fact that John and Sherlock must be gay because they live together, but then they basically go "LOL AS IF NO HOMO" is queerbaiting, sorry. And just because you interpreted Scandal as John being in love with Sherlock doesn't mean everyone who watches the show did, or that it's canon. I understand why people ship it and they're free to do so, but the truth is that Moffat and Co play up the "Sherlock and John are totes in gay love" angle that fandom has latched onto in order to pull in viewers and get the fans worked up, but they have absolutely no intention of making it canon. That is queerbaiting.

[sarnath]

Honestly, the fact that people are constantly alluding to the fact that John and Sherlock must be gay because they live together, but then they basically go "LOL AS IF NO HOMO"

Yeah, I actually disagree that that's what happens. There is no "must be gay" assumptions, and there's no "LOL AS IF NO HOMO".

I looked at the exchange between Irene and John and to be honest, do you think there's a more likely explanation? If so, what?

[(Anonymous)]

I looked at the exchange between Irene and John and to be honest, do you think there's a more likely explanation? If so, what?

That Irene was just trolling John like she did everyone else in that episode?

I mean all John does in reply is scoff. Like he knows he's just bashing his head against a wall to deny it. The same way he does when others imply him and Sherlock are together, by the end he just stops bothering and acts despondent.

And considering there is nothing else in the entire series that follows on from that to imply either he or Sherlock are in love...yeah, I'd say it was just another example of Moffat's queer-baiting.

[(Anonymous)]

Why are people even reaching for this squint and maybe you'll see it stuff these days? Canon gay is a thing. It is a (poorly handled) thing within that very show. If there was going to be anything between John and Holmes, it would be more blatant than John deciding that arguing with a troll isn't worth his time.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for your common sense here. Sometimes I feel like Sherlock fandom hates anyone who DOESN'T ship John/Sherlock.

[sarnath]

I think that's reading against canon, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[fenm]

There is no "must be gay" assumptions, and there's no "LOL AS IF NO HOMO".

There's plenty of both. Hell, there's two in the first episode alone (Mrs. Hudson wondering if John will need the other bedroom [Of course I will!], and the whole dinner scene). Also Sally in TGG, the innkeeper in THOB, and his reaction to being referred to as a "confirmed bachelor" (i.e., gay) in the some paper in TRF. The last two take place after ASIB, btw (in fact, TRF is six months later; the ASIB scene was before New Year's while Sherlock is said to have "died" in June). So either Irene was wrong about John's feelings, in which case, what the the point of the scene; or she was she was right, but John's still denying it as much as half a year later, in which case, what was the point of that scene?

[sarnath]

I don't agree that the fact that people think they're a couple is queerbaiting and No Homo.

John is the only one who protests (and I think it's because he is a bit insecure about his sexuality and worries about his image in that department). Sherlock doesn't care, and thought he was seriously flirting in the first episode and answered the same way as he would any romantic overture.

I think people's assumptions come naturally, because of how they act and the fact that they live together. It's not something people who know them keep harping on about, it's not something they're mocked for, it's treated by all characters as a legitimate and normal possibility, not something half-forbidden that's joked about.

either Irene was wrong about John's feelings, in which case, what the the point of the scene; or she was she was right, but John's still denying it as much as half a year later, in which case, what was the point of that scene?

That he's in love but denying it, for various reasons, I'd say. Or he's accepted it and moved on, as he must be pretty sure Sherlock isn't interested. Especially after Irene.

[fenm]

That he's in love but denying it, for various reasons, I'd say. Or he's accepted it and moved on

Then the point of that scene was...? See, in real life, there are loose ends, stuff that happens you're not privy to, etc. But in fiction, if you're not willing to follow through on something, then DON'T BRING IT UP. If John is so repressed that the audience will never see him express his feeling towards Sherlock, then it's the same thing as him NOT having them, so there's no point to his having them. And if he's already moved on--same thing. So, again, if Moffat doesn't have the balls to show John expressing his feelings towards Sherlock, there's no point in claiming he has them. And don't ask me "How should he (John) do that". It's Moffat's plot point, HE should figure how to deal with it.

[(Anonymous)]

Every time someone alludes to the fact that John and Sherlock might be in a relationship, there's either the response of "I'M NOT GAY" or laughter and a mocking/derisive tone, as if anyone thinking they were gay is positively ridiculous. And yet it keeps coming up, because the writers know that fans ship it and they want to have their cake and eat it too. If the only reason you even mention that they might be a couple in an episode is to either go "NOPE NOT GAY" or laugh at the very thought because there is no way you ever intend to make that couple canon, you are pulling a no homo moment. So, yeah, there is an awful lot of queerbaiting going on.

[elephantinegrace]

I remember seeing a video where Morgan Freeman wore librarian glasses and kept doing random things that he was worried people would think were disgusting, like peeing in front of another person and yelling "I'M NOT GAY!' or accidentally walking into the women's lingerie section and yelling "I'M NOT A PERVERT!"

...I remember I had a point to this.

[(Anonymous)]

MORGAN Freeman?

...I hope so, because the image of that is even more hilarious.

[(Anonymous)]

Damn, I need to find this video.

[elephantinegrace]

Dammit, now I can't go back and edit it.

I meant Martin Freeman, sorry. And here's the link, if anyone's interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nMzrSkmIg

[sarnath]

Every time someone alludes to the fact that John and Sherlock might be in a relationship, there's either the response of "I'M NOT GAY" or laughter and a mocking/derisive tone, as if anyone thinking they were gay is positively ridiculous.

No, there isn't. You're misremembering, and probably internalising what people have said online. John is denying it, Sherlock doesn't care, people they meet treat it as a normal thing, not something titillating or as a joke.

My impression isn't that the writing says a gay couple would be ridiculous, but that people believe them to be together because they don't consider it a strange or weird thing. Two men in their situation could likely be a couple, that's why other characters assume. It makes John insecure, for several possible reasons, but no one else seems to care.

And I don't agree that not making a couple who has subtext canon is always per definition queerbaiting.

[(Anonymous)]

Not sure if troll, or poster child for delusional shippers

[fenm]

No, there isn't. You're misremembering

No, I'm not.

John is denying it

Yes, and notice that it's usually aimed at him. All but one of the examples I gave were aimed at him. The topic is brought up SPECIFICALLY for him to deny it. Why do that?

And I don't agree that not making a couple who has subtext canon is always per definition queerbaiting.

No one's saying it is. But bringing up the topic just to have to shot down OVER AND OVER AND OVER is.