fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2195 ]

[ SECRET POST #2195 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2195 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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People think this about Stiles?

How does that factor in? Because part of the "nice guy" syndrome is being nice in the hopes the girl will turn around and be all "Oh my god, you are so nice to me, let's have sex now and I'll be your trophy girl friend!" But Stiles does make it clear he wants to date Lydia. And he doesn't expect anything back from her.

Honestly, at this point I'm more afraid that, now that Jackson is being written out of the show, they'll "reward" Stiles with her. I really, honestly think Lydia and Stiles could turn into evil, ass-kicking besties, but I don't think a romantic relationship between the two of them would be very healthy.

Doesn't Stiles say he has a 5 or 10 year plan to win Lydia? It makes it sound like he plans all the nice things he does for her to score points. Y'know, like a Nice Guy.

Yeah, he said in the finale that he was changing his 10 year plan to "win Lydia" into a 15 year plan, and he spends a lot of time whining about the fact that Lydia doesn't notice him.

To be honest, when I saw that line, I saw it more as though he were kidding, and not actually serious about it. I mean, Jeff Davis seems to be playing with the idea of Stiles being potentially bisexual, and since they were all just talking about how things were going "back to the way they used to be" it seemed more like he was saying it as a bravado thing.

I was honestly really surprised when so many people thought he was serious.

I felt exactly the same. His crush on Lydia has almost become a running gag at this point-- and that particular line read to me as a sort of bittersweet joke about how they were clearly *never ever* going to get together.

DA- He's not being underhanded or manipulative when he's nice to her, though. Nor does act entitled to her attention.

Do you have a better plan for trying to get the person you like to notice you?

To be honest, if the person in question barely acknowledges that you exist, has shown no interest despite your best efforts, and is in love with someone else, it might be for the best to give up that 10-15 year plan and try to seek out other people. Otherwise it can eventually get close to stalker territory.

This.

da. These days the phrase 'Nice Guy' seems to have been stretched to include any man (and increasingly any woman) who: a) wishes the person they were infatuated with returned their affection, b) tries to win said affection by performing deeds they wouldn't have performed if they weren't trying to initiate something, c) is upset if their crush isn't interested in them, or d) is in any way jealous of the current SO of the person they're romantically interested in.

If you do nice things with an ulterior motive related to "winning" someone, you're a Nice Guy/Girl. That's pretty much the only criterion there is.

This so much, goddamn.

Wait wait wait, if you do nice things to try to impress someone you're a 'nice guy/girl'? I mean, isn't that a crazy broad definition? How does that even make sense? People do things to make themselves look better/more appealing all the time. It's kind of in our nature, yes?

Well...yes. If you're nice only for appearances' sake, you're not actually that nice. In the case of Nice Guys, they treat nice deeds like a currency that can somehow buy them the person they want regardless of other factors. Just because they were "nice," but not necessarily because they're nice people. It's incredibly sleazy.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-06 16:33 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-06 21:01 (UTC) - Expand

In that case why the hell do people complain about Nice Guys/Girls? I'd been given to understand that the term was originally used to describe men (generally those falling into the whinging loser category) who expressed entitled attitudes towards women because they viewed themselves as 'a nice guy'. However, what you're describing is a perfectly normal human behaviour engaged in by the vast majority of people living in cultures where people choose their own spouse. When people are romantically interested in someone they usually try to impress them in some way; be it through endeavouring to look more physically attractive, asking them out on a date, giving a gift, showing off their prowess at a particular activity or helping them out with something.

Sure, it's awkward when the feelings aren't returned or romantic overtures are mistaken for purely friendly ones, but unless the person making them starts to subsequently act in an unpleasant or harrasive fashion towards the person rejecting them, it's nothing more than that.

DA

Unless the person pursuing has a 15 year plan to win the other person. Then it ventures into crazy, obsessive stalker territory.

Teen wolf is there.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-06 05:32 (UTC) - Expand

It's more that they do nice things for the one they love instead of telling them how they feel, and then act like the other person owes them a relationship and/or sex.

The problem was really that they needed to be more straightforward and/or graciously take (an unspoken) 'no' for an answer, but this is where some people tend to blame their own perceived "niceness". It's perfectly possible to be straightforward and nice, though, and if you don't respect someone's wishes when they don't want to be with you, you aren't actually very nice.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-06 05:58 (UTC) - Expand

If a person you like hasn't noticed you, despite knowing and interacting with you for months, chances are because they just don't want you that way. And no amount of one sided pushing is going to change that. In fact, it quickly becomes awkward and uncomfortable, and can even be scary for the person you are trying to get to notice you.

The best way to deal with it is to recognise that it's become an unhealthy obsession and open yourself up to the possibility that your lifemate might be someone else.

There's a difference between a 5 year plan to woo the person you are in love with and plan to be with, and a 5 year plan to get laid with the person you think is hot. It's okay to be nice if it's genuine, it's not okay to pretend to be nice just to get laid. I know it's up to interpretation, but I honestly don't think Stiles is being nice just to get laid.

... except his wooing is still not taking into account the fact that Lydia's not at all interested in him. He's still trying to win her affections because he feels that he in some way deserves them. It's possible to be a nice guy in an effort to "win" a relationship. It's not always just about sex.

I only watched the series a bit but didn't Lydia go to prom with Stiles (or ended up with him at prom before the whole Peter mess)?

Yes, but she only went as a favor to Allison/as an apology for making out with her boyfriend.

(no subject)

kaijinscendre - 2013-01-06 01:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-06 02:06 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-06 09:01 (UTC) - Expand

Actually, it's not at all different. Sure having sex is crass, but even if you are just wanting platonic friendship, this form of pursuit doesn't take account of the fact that the object of your affection is not an object. She has feelings, desires, dreams, and hopes that are not the same what you imagine hers should be. If you are wooing a person with a 5 year plan, you are basically admitting to wanting to manipulate an unwilling person's life for your benefit.

If a relationship is meant to be, there is no need for a plan. It will organically grow without all the calculating or manipulation, because she will be working as hard to make it happen as you do.

What? Relationships do not always just magically appear ex nihilo, with feelings developing on both sides at the same time, in the same way, and at the same rate. If that is how your relationships have worked, you are unbelievably lucky.

There is nothing wrong with wooing someone. There is nothing wrong with doing nice things for someone because you like them. There is nothing wrong with making plans in hopes that you might impress someone you like/love. Making efforts to begin a sexual/romantic/platonic relationship is not wrong in and of itself-- and it does not necessarily imply some sinister intentions to manipulate someone for your selfish benefit.
There is absolutely something wrong with doing nice things because you feel like relationships are a simple transaction of nice acts for sex or love, and that your (unsolicited) kindness entitles you to something from the other person.
... but these are not the same thing.

I am legitimately baffled by this comment.

(And all this outside of Teen Wolf-- because this comment is much, much broader than the criticism I've heard of Stiles.)

Relationships are mutual. It's not that baffling. If you are pursuing one and the person you are pursuing is telling you LOUD AND CLEAR that they are not interested, doggedly pursuing them is stalking.

This isn't about holding out your hand in friendship and having that other person realize you are there and pretty neat and accepting it. It's about thrusting out your hand in friendship and then refusing to believe it when that other person says, "please go away." 5, 10, 15 years? How long do they have to put up with you before you will finally leave them alone?

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