[ SECRET POST #2230 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2230 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Early because blizzard, not quite sure if power will last.

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 103 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u672/TwinkieTheElder/bitchnmoan5_zpsb8e0543c.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

One the one hand, I totally agree that Aragorn should have got with Eowyn. Because I'm a total Eowyn stan. I don't really care what reasons you use, I'm not picky.

On the other hand, I have to point out that the image you have there is pretty inappropriate & actually kind of undermines your point, because Victoria was totally, and famously, into Prince Albert.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh...but she'd just be second best. Why would Eowyn deserve a guy pining over some other woman? Faramir is a pretty great guy and he loved her genuinely. Also that's a great political match.

[dreemyweird]

Maybe they're disapproving of her marriage rather than taking her as an example? :) [although I suspect that they just took an image of a random queen]

On the matter of Aragorn&Eowyn: doesn't it disconcert you that he didn't really love her? (not attacking, just curious)
Because while I totally understand why people make up fanons for it, I can't see it being a happy marriage in canon. Aragorn would've been an unfortunate wretch.

[(Anonymous)]

Haha, I'm glad someone else saw the irony behind the photo choice, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. Only, Victoria also famously married off her children to consolidate political alliances.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that Elrond dangled Arwen in front of Aragorn his entire life, saying that if he didn't balls-up and get into that royal position, he couldn't have her at all. He wouldn't have even been in the position to have to decide whether to make a marriage of political alliance if not for Arwen existing. So, it was kind of a done deal either way. Marrying off his Steward to the Lady of Rohan was still pretty advantageous to both kingdoms anyway.

[dreemyweird]

As a history lover, I approve of this secret. You have a good way of thinking, OP.

However, I've always felt like Tolkien's worlds had nothing whatsoever to do with Realpolitik; it just doesn't work there. There's much more kindness, nobility and justice in his books than there's in actual history of mankind. Hence royal marriages might also work differently.

Also the fact that not every single royal marriage was made for political reasons makes a valid point. Some unions stood against all odds, pissing the relatives off immensely (something of the Romeo and Juliet plot is always out there).

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. I think it's always important to take in the tone and setting of a story before making these kinds of judgments. Realistically, Jasmine from Aladdin probably would have had to suck it up and get married, but that's not the kind of world they were in.

This kind of reminds me of when GRRM was asked to compare LotR and GoT characters martially. He pegged Jaime as winning over Aragorn, but that's just silly. The kind of world Aragorn is in is the kind where men perform incredible feats of strength and valor, beyond the realm of regular people. Jaime is a very skilled man, but his world is generally more subdued in feats of martial capability.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read the books, but I got the impression Arwen's father wasn't all too keen on their relationship at first, and that Arwen and Aragon were just too in love to give a shit about the age difference and the immortality thing. I never really thought of this as a royal marriage. :/

[(Anonymous)]

Victoria & Albert wasn't exactly the best example of a politically advantageous marriage, probably mostly because as a queen, she pretty much outranked every potential husband. It was family encouraged but it was a love match.

[elaminator]

Eh, Lord of the Rings is set in a different universe and doesn't have to play by those rules. I don't see the problem. Aragorn and Arwen loved each other hence they got married.

Plus, I LOVE Faramir and Eowyn together; they're both fantastic characters and in my eyes they fit together better than Aragorn and Eowyn would have.

[sensualcoco.livejournal.com]

I don't really see Gondor and Rohan needing a marriage to solidify their place as allies after they fought against Mordor together. Plus you know, Aragorn, Eowyn, Faramir and Éomer are kind of friends. Am I being too optimistic? Maybe.

Also Eowyn x Faramir 5ever!

[visp]

Politically, Arwen is a good choice. She taps into the nostalgia for the 'Good Old Days' and is a real Jackie Kennedy. Since Aragorn is the returning king, it's a pretty good idea for his wife to be someone who can really gain the fondness of the local population, while not causing the existing noble houses to feel that one of their number has been disproportionately honored above the rest (if he marries a Gondorian woman). Eowyn won't win over the locals as much, and Gondor and Rohan don't really need much more allying. Plus Eomer and Eowyn are already marrying Gondorians.

[(Anonymous)]

OP did you choose Queen Victoria to be ironic? I know she put a lot of pressure on Albert, but she loved him a lot, to the point where she didn't care about her children as much as him.

[(Anonymous)]

This secret reminds me of the time someone pitched a fit because the politicians in 'Battlestar Galactica' weren't following Robert's Rules of Order.

[(Anonymous)]

Except that even in realpolitic terms, you're overlooking the value of the alliance to Aragorn, the remains of the North Kingdom, and therefore to Gondor during the half a century between the time he came of age and the time of the War of the Ring. Rivendell and Lothlorien are the only really safe, stable anchors for the opposition to Sauron in the North; the traveling companies of Elves are among the best sources of intelligence and aid; a betrothal to Elrond's daughter and Galadriel's granddaughter solidifies both. Considering that Aragorn, for all his personal virtues, is an heir whose tangible inheritance basically consists of a sword and a gemstone, and the loyalty of a few hundred warriors, that's not exactly trivial. (And not only does Aragorn's work in the North matter, ultimately, there are limits to what he could have done if he'd tried to base himself in Gondor for all those years: canonically, Denethor was suspicious and hostile toward him even when he was working under an assumed name, and coming clean about his lineage would only have made things worse.)

So, useful alliance to powerful rulers. Do you suggest he should dump that on meeting Eowyn? And perhaps send Elrohir and Elladan back to their father, along with whatever help they brought for the last push against Mordor that allows time for the Ring to be destroyed? When it's evident that your allies the Rohirrim feel themselves committed to you in any event, and certainly don't need the shoring up? In the coldest and most utilitarian view possible, it's not a brilliant strategy.

And by the time that battle is over, even if you were worried about your alliance with Rohan, it has been secured by Eowyn's betrothal to the Prince of Ithilian. So, no need to cause an international crisis, amirite?

[greenvelvetcake]

But she married Faramir, which formed ties between Gondor and the Rohirrim and Aragon formed ties between Gondor and the Elves. Win win!

[(Anonymous)]

Kings marrying Rohirrim cause civil wars. Remember what happened last time? Half of the country was horrified they 'polluted the bloodline'.

[al28894]

Um, even though they did marry for semi-political reasons, you do realize that Victoria loved Prince Albert very much?

Unless you mean about their children whom were married off to, then... quite apt.

[philstar22]

EH. I mean, I absolutely love Aragorn/Eowyn, but not for this reason. I think Arwen actually makes more sense in terms of political reasons. I just love the Aragorn/Eowyn ship, though I like Aragorn/Arwen and Eowyn/Faramir too even if not quite as much.

[(Anonymous)]

i don't get the little mermaid complex part.

and of course it was a bad political alliance...they weren't married for political reasons. that's why their love was so epic <3

[gethenian]

I feel you may have misunderstood the politics in play in this case just a little...

Plus, there are thematic reasons for these unions to be more appropriate. Aragorn/Arwen was about mirroring Beren/Luthien, while Faramir/Eowyn was about subverting traditional male/female roles.

[(Anonymous)]

The best political match probably would have been a sister of Boromir and Faramir, had there been one. The elves were leaving and both Eomer and Eowyn were already marrying people from Gondor, resulting in stronger bonds between the two countries.

I can see how the simple population may not have felt all that connected to this stranger from the North. Yes, he helped defeat Mordor's forces but so did plenty of others. Yes, he had been in Minas Tirith before, but that had been years and years ago and under a different name.
I think a marriage with the old Steward's daughter would have made the change in ruler smoother.

I can imagine that Arwen, on the other hand, while being lovely and showing the connection to all that history of Aragorn's lineage, may not only cause awe but also a further sense of estrangement from all that the Gondorians are used to, perhaps even a feeling that he was looking down on what they had and were.

[htebazytook]

Elrond seemed the only one interested in the politics of Aragorn/Arwen. Also they actually loved each other, whereas Aragorn didn't love Eowyn and Eowyn just wanted to BE Aragorn