Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-02-10 03:51 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-02-10 03:51 pm
[ SECRET POST #2231 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2231 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
If you call your friend Izumi-san, it means you can not or will not call her Izumi-chan or just Izumi. Seems rather important to me. If that Izumi-san is turned into just Izumi for a dub, it removes that indicator of your relationship.
In what I have witnessed in entertainment, the version of I used does seem to be indicative of personality and circumstances. I take note of which version a character uses, as it adds to their character. I find it interesting that you say this is not very applicable IRL, but then, we aren't talking about IRL, are we? We're talking about subbed versus dubbed anime, and why I prefer the former.
If Ichigo calls himself "ore" even in front of Captain-Commander Yamato, that tells me about his character. If he switches to "boku" in front of someone else, I'll know he's up to something. This is fiction, and word choice can be very important.
speaking like an old man is not really something that is impossible to portray in English.
And that is precisely why I prefer subbed. Even if the subtitle doesn't manage to translate it well enough, I have the original Japanese to preserve it.
This all comes to my preference of wanting the original language preserved, honorifics, vocabulary, and any quirky speaking habits included.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-02-11 06:56 am (UTC)(link)You can indicate that Ichigo is up to something by changing the way he says things in English too! It won't explicitly be how he says "I" but the fact that he changed how he said "I" isn't important, what's important is that he changed his speaking style - again the fact that "I" was the specific word that was changed isn't actually important.
And you misread the sentence about the old man - you CAN convey that in English - they do it all the time in cartoons. There's a very distinct "old people talking" voice/way of speaking that they do.
Preferring the sub is fine, but don't act like it's impossible to get the same nuances in English - it's not.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-02-11 10:53 am (UTC)(link)Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
There is a phrase called 'lost in translation', and there are some cultural things that just do not translate.
Take a linguistics class or travel to a country that speaks another language. Not the tourist sites but the real deal. Ethnocentrism makes you think the world can easily be decoded with a Spanish-->English dictionary, and while that might help you with a few simple phrases ... the culture is another matter entirely.
Culture and language are what make people different and what makes different countries unique from each other. So, when you say things can be easily translated into English without losing any nuance, I can't help but call bullshit.
What I hate about dubs is the ethnocentrism - I love to use that word. They try to Americanize it (or whatever English speaking country) because they think people are too stupid to understand the more subtle references. It makes people uncomfortable to see things through another cultures lens, so it has to be filtered down for them.
I can't help but be reminded of that pokemon episode that turned an onigiri into a donut. That's pretty much the personification of what dubs are to me.
tl;dr: You are dead wrong if you think that no nuance of the original culture is lost when trying to make it more friendly for your own culture.
no subject
Sure, things get lost in translation. But are those things always important? And is it always a matter of ethnocentrism? No, I don't think so, not always.
Consider the target audience of Pokémon. Could children that age be expected to know what onigiri is, or to easily find out? I'd say no. 'Donut' is definitely ... not what I'd gone for, to be quite diplomatic; the only excuse for it that I can see is that it probably fit mouth movements pretty well (o + something else, could take about as long to say given how Japanese dialog tends to be reallyreallyfast). But you need to call it something, and I'm damned if I can think of a good alternative.
no subject
Can you always convey the same meaning in a translation as in the original? Pretty much, yes. In the same number of syllables, while taking mouth shape ('o' or 'ee', for instance), stress, and the question whether this is something an actual person would actually say into consideration? Yeah, no, you're going to have to settle for a simplification.
Of course, the lost information isn't always important, and you can do a lot with tone of voice, but the latter depends a lot on the dub script writers/translators, the directors and and the voice actors.