fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2232 ]

[ SECRET POST #2232 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2232 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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I can't stand it when women talk about how they hate "Advice to prevent rape" such as watching your drink, don't wander around alone in bad neighborhoods, don't get so drunk at parties you don't know what is going on, and learning how to defend oneself.

And they say it because, "They shouldn't have to do that, men should just not rape." How fucking stupid are you? People know rape is bad, it doesn't stop rapists. Just like how murder is bad, but there are still people being murdered.

There ARE things you can do to lower your chances of being raped (like the things that were mentioned above). These things will also lower your chances of being murdered, robbed, and/or assaulted.

Yeah but pretty much everyone knows those things, I guess? I mean, you have to question the extent to which that novel isn't engrained and is novel and relevant.

And also bringing that advice up constantly reinforces an incorrect perception of rape, IE that it is predominantly stranger rape

Yeah but pretty much everyone knows those things, I guess?

Some people are kids.

If you are on a college campus a lot of people are kids and you do need to bring it up constantly, as the kids never stop showing up. Rape usually isn't done by strangers but just deciding not to give people advice because it isn't the most common thing doesn't make sense. Plenty of bad things could happen to you because you didn't watch your drink or wandered alone at 2AM that are less bad than rape but nonetheless bad.

I mean, most people don't get robbed at ATMs but you're still supposed to watch your back at the ATM. The theft is the thief's fault but it'd be nice to, you know, thwart them.

Re: trigger warning for rape in this whole thread

kaijinscendre - 2013-02-12 01:21 (UTC) - Expand

I think most people know some of the more obvious ones, but I know a LOT of people who never pay attention to their drinks at parties and bars

A friend of mine who really wasn't stupid and went to a lot of parties (so she was way more familiar with that stuff than I was) tended to take open beer bottles that strangers bought here and drink them after taking a look and smelling it. She also tended to get into complete strangers cars when she was totally drunk.

Really not common knowledge.

Re: trigger warning for rape in this whole thread

kaijinscendre - 2013-02-12 02:01 (UTC) - Expand

Re: trigger warning for rape in this whole thread

insanenoodlyguy - 2013-02-12 02:20 (UTC) - Expand

This kind of pisses me off, too. When people are given similar advice on how to not get mugged, how to avoid car thieves, how to avoid burglars etc., no-one complains how this is victim shaming. But heaven forbid, give the same kind of advice on how to lower your chances of getting raped and suddenly it's like the person talking is the Satan himself.

I've known people who got their cars or houses broken into, or their purses stolen, or whatever, and I never heard anyone tell them that if they'd just not parked their car there, or got a big dog, or worn a purse with a strap that went across their body, they wouldn't have been stolen from. Often, these things are tossed out as advice on how to decrease the chance that it'll happen again, but that's all. And most people wouldn't be so insensitive as to tell someone who lived in a crime-prone neighborhood to move elsewhere if their job or school was nearby and/or they couldn't afford to move. But the rape stuff is nasty because women are often blamed for wearing short skirts or walking alone or getting drunk if they get raped while doing these things, as though doing those things makes them free game for rapists. Clearly they should have expected to be raped because they didn't only travel during the day, stone cold sober, in packs, covered from head to toe in burlap sacking, and heavily armed, preferably with some big scary men and a pack of dogs for backup. Old women are raped. Young men are raped. Children are raped. Often the victim knows and is known by their rapist. The only constant when it comes to rape, is that somewhere there is a rapist.

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 10:33 (UTC) - Expand

The problem isn't so much that people say those things, but that it's the default, and often the ONLY thing, said when discussing how to prevent rape. The right way to do it (in my opinion, and that of a lot of other people) would be to have the majority of the discussion centered on how to change societal attitudes to reduce rape and how to deal with rapists/potential rapists, and also tell people how to reduce their chances of being raped, but not have that dominate the overall conversation.

This, yes.

Exactly.

Rapists will never change. There are always going to be men, and some women, that feel they are owed sex. Why? Because they have a penis and it's hard (Or because they feel they're better than the other person) I honestly think rapists should be neutered, personally. Child rapists (Actual rapists, not a sixteen year old having sex with their eighteen year old girlfriend/boyfriend) should be given the death penalty. Problem solved.

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 02:48 (UTC) - Expand

(reply from suspended user)

That takes a fuck of a lot longer. Meanwhile, "hey freshman, keep your drink in hand and don't take no open shit, okay? Shit can have roofies in it" can be said in a few seconds. Your proposing an hour long seminar.

It might be a damn good seminar, but how many stupid kids you know ever sit around and listen to that shit? If half of them remember the drink thing I'd be happy!

The problem isn't that people are getting told how to protect themselves from rape.

The problem is that a lot of rapists aren't some random person lurking in the shadows. Often, rapists are everyday people that the victim knows, and even loves. How do you protect yourself against that?

And the other problem is that people aren't getting told "Don't rape" in addition to "Protect yourself from rape." And when the victims come forward, there's often a tendency to ask them: "What did you do to stop it?"

How many other crimes do we constantly go on about the need to tell people not to murder/steal/assault jw?

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

yeahscience - 2013-02-12 01:44 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 01:54 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

yeahscience - 2013-02-12 01:56 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 02:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

yeahscience - 2013-02-12 02:04 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 02:05 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

yeahscience - 2013-02-12 02:06 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 02:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

(Anonymous) - 2013-02-12 02:46 (UTC) - Expand

"The problem is that a lot of rapists aren't some random person lurking in the shadows. Often, rapists are everyday people that the victim knows, and even loves. How do you protect yourself against that?" Well, yes this may be true, but some are a random person that is in the shadows, or more commonly date rape. Which can happen because you are not watching your drink.

True. But tactics to prevent rape and trying to do something about the fucked-up response we have to victims are not mutually exclusive.

I think it's more of how they frame the advice I guess? Sometimes it does come off as victim blamey the way people word it.

But yes, I agree that it is good advice in general for women and men (though the "don't walk through bad neighborhoods" thing can unfortunately be unavoidable for those who, well...live in bad neighborhoods).

The problem is that this advice is that it might prevent, like, ten percent or so of rapes, maybe, when the wind is southerly.
Yet it's nearly always presented as "if you dumb bitches wouldn't do these things, you wouldn't keep getting raped". Enormously few rapes happen on secluded alleys to provocatively dressed women.

Sorry, this is really long-winded and rambly.

The thing I object to is that when someone doesn't follow the advice, or tries to and ends up getting raped anyway, they get blamed. Someone will say "Well, she was alone." or "She wasn't paying attention to her drink." and unfortunately, most people will have a subconscious "Oh, well that's why she got raped." thought, even if they know logically that it wasn't the victim's fault. Or sometimes it's a not-so-subconscious thought and they really do believe that. Maybe the "men should just not rape" thing is becoming an unhelpful cliche but I think originally it was meant to be "Why don't we think more critically about the attitudes our culture has towards rape and try to come up with a better solution to the problem."

Personally the first time I heard it, it opened my eyes, because even when I was really little my parents were telling me how to act and what to do in order to be safe and I think most girls grew up with that kind of teaching, but I always had the feeling that the boys weren't taught to take it seriously. Like they didn't understand how powerless they actually made girls feel. So I guess the real meaning is "Let's teach boys about rape with the same level of seriousness that we teach girls."

This is a very good comment and you should be proud.

Re: Non-fandom Secrets

caecilia - 2013-02-13 21:38 (UTC) - Expand

Actually, a lot of rapists claim that they didn't actually rape anyone. They talk about how the person was sending off signals, how they totally were on board. So no, not every rapist knows that what they're doing is bad. And even if they do, society tends to back up the rapist and not the victim. And society tends to have this whole "men can't control themselves" idea about sex, which gives men an excuse - the whole "she shouldn't have been wearing that" thing.

So there needs to be a focus on teaching people what constitutes as rape, why rape is bad, how they can control themselves, etc etc etc.

There is a HUGE inequality in the way rape is approached, and people finally getting fed up with victim blaming (well, you shouldn't have left your drink alone/shouldn't have walked alone at night/etc) is a good thing imo.

+infinity

This.

Late to the party: but in my culture, rape is highly considered a crime of violence, not a crime of passion. I read all your replies here with much interest, and admittedly some confusion

Same here, which is why I usually stay out of rape discussions online...

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