fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2286 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2286 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah, but on the other hand they're being idiots. Useful idiots, yes, but I feel like it'd be good at some point for them to stop being idiots. And once they've gotten to the place of supporting gay rights, hopefully we can convince them to stop being idiots while still maintaining the support for gay rights.

DA

"YOU'RE NOT A REAL ALLY SHUT UP OMG" doesn't help do that. It's not asking them to have better reasons, it's asking them shut up and not say anything at all.

Well, yes, it's certainly not the best approach, but I think it's understandable that people might react that way to "LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE SO MY GLEE OTP CAN GET MARRIED". I mean, it's unfortunate, but not really unexpected. It's just such a ridiculous opinion to hold, I can't really blame people for having a reaction like that to it.

allies need to shut up more often, lbr here

No, I think allies need to speak up more often in not-specifically-lgbt spaces.

Even in those cases, they shouldn't be speaking over the people they're trying to help.

Certainly not. But I think the problem of self-proclaimed allies being less than helpful is nowhere near as serious as the problem of people letting homophobia, transphobia and biphobia happen -- because it's easier that way, or because they're afraid they'll say the wrong thing.

i don't believe in allies nor do i want them anywhere near me

if you are not LGBTQ, you do not have a right to talk about LGBTQ issues. you are not an ally, you are the het/cis enemy. talking about LGBTQ issues in non-LGBTQ spaces is only harmful -- the so-called "allies" get good feelings from their appropriation and the rest of the world is too fucking bigoted to care so it's pointless.

nope sorry all people have a right to talk about all issues insofar as they're issues of justice, and principle, and humanity, and abstract right

that doesn't mean that they have a right to be in every space, or that personal experience doesn't give knowledge and experience which makes some people more knowledgeable than others, or that you should keep talking while being an ignorant asshole. but there's literally no issue which some people don't get to talk about.

"if you are not LGBT...you are the het/cis enemy"

Excuse me? Don't be ridiculous. Having a certain gender identity or sexual orientation does not automatically make anyone an enemy of anyone else.

Wow, really? I'm not allowed to support equal rights because I'm not gay? Does that mean I have to change the way I vote? Do I have to un-donate some money, too?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That is all.

This is better than performance art. *munches popcorn*

"The het/cis enemy"? Really? Wow, way to make self-fulfilling prophecies. Straight people may be your enemy, but they sure as hell aren't mine (I'm cis, so cis people obviously aren't). When some people make ___phobic comments, those who disagree - yes, they do exist - need to say something, even if they happen to be straight and/or cis.

And if you think people shouldn't talk about LGBTQ issues in non-LGBTQ spaces, then whato you think this discussion is? Last time I checked, f!s wasn't specifically a community for LGBTQ issues. Neither are places where laws are made, changed, passed or challenged, so your idea of where people get to talk about LGBTQ matters seems like a surefire way not to bring about any changes whatsoever to society.

if you are not LGBTQ,

Really? I never get to talk to my little brother about his life ever again then? Because YOU say so?

You're going to be awfully lonely in the world, you keep thinking like that.

(no subject)

wauwy - 2013-04-07 03:43 (UTC) - Expand

But if those self proclaimed allies don't LISTEN when someone they say they want to help says "No, that's not true, that's offensive", I have to doubt their sincerity. And believe me, I wish it was such a tiny little problem.

cloud_riven - 2013-04-06 22:21 (UTC) - Expand

dazzledfirestar - 2013-04-06 22:47 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2013-04-06 22:50 (UTC) - Expand

dazzledfirestar - 2013-04-06 22:57 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2013-04-06 23:00 (UTC) - Expand

dazzledfirestar - 2013-04-06 23:15 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2013-04-07 01:24 (UTC) - Expand

Allies in general should LISTEN more than they speak on subject like this. Flat out, talking over someone who is directly affected by the issue and telling them what they should think and why is NOT being an ally. You're there for support, not to toot your own horn.

THIS I can agree on. I just think when those who are directly affected aren't around to defend themselves against ignorance and hate, those who AREN'Tdirectly affected can (dare I say "should"?) help.

All right, what IS an ally? Exactly?

^ This please. Because I'm so confused right now.

An ally is someone who isn't queer (using queer to encompass LGBT, two-spirited, genderqueer, asexual, etc. etc.) but supports queer rights/thinks they should have basic human rights.

This is not the impression I am getting from some of the posts in this thread.

Apparently, people who claim to be allies but don't do much in terms of helping the cause are a big problem in some places. (I don't doubt this is a thing and can be a problem, but I don't buy the idea that self-proclaimed "allies" are a bigger problem than homophobia and transphobia either.)

this. as a gay person, listening to people attempt to rally support for us by squealing over their yaoi/yuri pairings (who are not actually affected by reality like we are) is immensely grating and out of touch, to be honest, and at its worst it makes me feel like this isn't actually for me at all. especially the few people i've seen doing this who act a little too excited over the thought and get super defensive when people ask them to knock it off.

honestly, it feels kind of like the fangirl version of straight bro "jokes" about how we should support lesbians because "it's hot," or something. they might not mean it 100% seriously (though there's probably an element of slightly cringey truth to it), but isn't that kind of an awful way of approaching it?